Genealogy Chat

I've found my grandfather Thomas William Parr 1867 in the 1901 census:

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Household Information
Street LONDON ROAD
Parish ISLEWORTH
Town
City
County Middlesex
Country ENGLAND
Ecclesiastical District ALL SAINTS
Enumeration District 14
Municipal Ward ISLEWORTH
Parliamentary Borough BRENTFORD
Registration District BRENTFORD
Category Census, Land & Surveys
Record set 1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Collections from Great Britain
Person 1
First Name ELLEN
Last Name PARR
Birth Year 1898
Age 3
Birth Town HOXTON
Birth County LONDON
Birth Place
Relationship To Head of Household DAUGHTER
Gender Female
Occupation
Condition SINGLE
Archive Reference RG13
Folio 152
Page 3
Piece Number 1184
Person 2
First Name DICK
Last Name PARR
Birth Year 1899
Age 2
Birth Town HOXTON
Birth County LONDON
Birth Place
Relationship To Head of Household SON
Gender Male
Occupation
Condition SINGLE
Archive Reference RG13
Folio 152
Page 3
Piece Number 1184
Person 3
First Name THOS WM
Last Name PARR
Birth Year 1876
Age 25
Birth Town
Birth County CAMBRIDGESHIRE
Birth Place
Relationship To Head of Household HEAD
Gender Male
Occupation HORSE KEEPER
Condition MARRIED
Archive Reference RG13
Folio 152
Page 3
Piece Number 1184
Person 4
First Name EDITH
Last Name PARR
Birth Year 1873
Age 28
Birth Town WOOLWICK <<<<<<<< Woolwich

so I must be missing a trick to find them. Can someone help me locate them please? (The Batts are an interesting sideline and if I can find out more that would be a bonus, Betsy is actually Alice Emma Tidy, married name Batt)

I find this easier to read:

1901 England Census
about Thos Wm Parr Name: Thos Wm Parr
[Thomas William Parr]
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Edith Parr
Birth Place: Cambridgeshire, England
Civil Parish: Isleworth
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Employment status: View Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Thos Wm Parr 25
Edith Parr 28
Arthur Parr 5
Ellen Parr 3
Dick Parr 2
Betsey Ball 30
Florie Ball 5
Sophie Ball 3

So Ellen is actually Ellen Jane Parr born 9 Apr 1897

Is Dick really John Henry Thomas Parr ? John born 30 Oct 1898
John is registered as Jack henry T Parr on indexes

There was also Arthur William baptised 1895 born 2 Aug 1895

Hi GlitterBaby
Yes, Ellen is Ellen Jane Parr
Dick is not JHT Parr 1898, but Dick 1899 - I think (smile), but then he disappears with the rest of the brood! That's one of the reasons I'd like to see the 1911 census.
JHT is known as Jack or John apparently, JHT's baptism shows him as John, his birth record as Jack. I've found a death for JHT in 1960 in Holborn but I can't be positive that it's the same person.
Arthur William is my father.

The "Balls" in Margee's post are actually Batts.

Having slept on it, it actually makes a lot of sense to consider Dick & JHT as one and the same. I listed both because I have records for both, but the only record I have for Dick is the 1901 in which JHT doesn't appear. I've not so far spent any time digging for Dick but there doesn't seem to be a believable birth record.

And the family has form when it comes to nicknames. Betsy Batt is in fact Alice Emma Batt, married sister of Edith Louise Tidy. If you call Alice Betsy, why not call John Dick?

So thank you again, GlitterBaby!

I've found some additional information which - to my mind at least - makes it almost certain that Dick and JHT and Jack are one and the same. I'm posting it here in case anyone else comes looking ...

I have just received copies of my father's army records, in them he lists his family under "next of kin": sister Ellen and brother (singular) Jack. So I think that makes it pretty definite that Dick = Jack = JHT.

Thank you again, GlitterBaby!

In that case, the father had almost certainly died. He would be NOK if living

Do you know when Thomas William died?

Perhaps the mother re-married and the family are listed under the second husband's name

Only a thought..............

Nice piece of lateral thinking, thank you!, but no, the father had not died. Next of kin were listed as father, mother, sister, brother. I have a possible death record by no way of demonstrating that it's the right Thomas William:

possible death from GR & FMP:
England & Wales deaths 1837-2007
First Name THOMAS W
Last Name PARR
Gender Male
Year 1935
Birth Year 1867
Birth Month
Birth Day
District LAMBETH
County London
Country England
Volume 1D
Event Quarter 1
District Number
Page 196
Line Number 63
Entry Number
Record set England & Wales deaths 1837-2007
DOR
Category Births, Marriages & Deaths
Collections from Great Britain

What's puzzling is that they've all disappeared - apart from my father that is. I'm planning a determined search for Ellen Jane and see whether that turns anything up.

Aged 25 in 1901, Thos Wm was born 1875/6

Yes, according to the 1901 census he was born 1875/6, but the only likely birth record I have found so far is for 11 April 1867, and his marriage record says ~1868. I can find him (and the family) in the 1901 census, but no trace so far in the 1911.

It did occur to me that I have a street address for the family in 1914 when my father joined up. If I could find that address in the 1911 census maybe they might be there?

67 Fentiman Street, Clapham Road, London SW

I was hoping that finding the Batt family would help with the 1911 search but Alice appears to be a widow and living as a servant and daughter Florence in a sort of training place.

Not at 67 Fentiman St

Several different surnames - Wilson, Sly, Tipping and Miitchell - all living in different rooms


1911 just to show registration district etc

Name: Gertrude Tipping
Age in 1911: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: India
Civil Parish: Lambeth
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 67 Fentiman Rd, S W
Marital Status: Widowed
Occupation: LADIES UNDERCLOTHING MANAGERESS
Registration district: Lambeth
Registration District Number: 25
Sub-registration district: Kennington
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Piece: 2000
Household Members:
Name Age
Gertrude Tipping 31
Walter James Mitchell 30


Is there a Fentiman St and Fentiman Road ?

No idea if same man or not but at that address in 1911 as well. Sounds a bit posh !!

Name: Thomas William Parr
Year: 1913
County or Borough: Lambeth
Ward or Division/Constituency: Kennington
Street address: 1 to 10 Finder's mews House
Lansdowne Gardens

Hi GlitterBaby! Thank you for picking this up again.

Good idea looking for the Batts, I hadn't thought of that. Where did you find them? And I wonder where Sophie ended up. Alice is indeed a widow, sister of Edith Louise the wife of Thomas William Parr.

So 67 Fentiman St is a lodging house or similar, not so helpful! Thank you for finding that. If you have time / energy I'd like to learn how to search for census data by address.

There may be a Fentiman Street but the address given on the Army document definitely says Fentiman Road.

What's this last record, please?:

"No idea if same man or not but at that address in 1911 as well"

As far as I have been able to find out, Thomas William was a worker in an inn, looking after the horses, at one point in his life anyway. Is it conceivable that he was a servant at the Mews?

London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965 (Ancestry)

Thomas William Parr
1908 Camden St Pancras North 47 S ivernake road Savernake road

Thomas William Parr
1909 Camden St Pancras North 47 Savernake road

Thomas William Parr
1913 Camden St Pancras North 47 Savernake road

Thomas William Parr
1910 Camden St Pancras North 47 Savernake road

Thomas William Parr
1912 Camden St Pancras North 47 Savernake road

Thomas William Parr
1911 Camden St Pancras North 47 Savernake road

(can remember above and Passenger Lists, from past 'Threads')


1901 (Find My Past)
Thos Wm Parr Head Married Male 25 1876 Horse Keeper Cambridgeshire, England
Edith Parr Wife Married Female 28 1873
Arthur Parr Son Single Male 5 1896 - Hoxton, Middlesex, England
Ellen Parr Daughter Single Female 3 1898 - Hoxton, Middlesex, England
Dick Parr Son Single Male 2 1899 - Hoxton, Middlesex, England
Betsey Batt Sister Married Female 30 1871 - Sheerness, Kent, England
Florie Batt Daughter Single Female 5 1896 - Chatham
Sophie Batt Daughter Single Female 3 1898 - Chatham
Street London Road
Parish Isleworth
County Middlesex
Municipal ward Isleworth
Registration district Brentford
Archive reference RG13
Piece number 1184
Folio 152
Page 3


(Reference repost of Marriage Arthur 1918)

Cambridgeshire Marriages Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) ARTHUR WILLIAM
Last name PARR
Spouse's first name(s) WINIFRED JOYCE FORTE
Spouse's last name JONES
Birth year 1896
Marriage year 1918
Marriage day 3
Marriage month Apr
Place CAMBRIDGE, ST LUKE (CHESTERTON)
Groom's first name(s) Arthur William
Groom's last name PARR
Groom's marital status bac
Groom's age 22
Groom's occupation 2nd Lieut Sixth Middlsex
Groom's residence of Bath Hotel Cambridge
Groom's father's first name(s) Thomas William
Groom's father's occupation munition worker
Bride's first name(s) Winifred Joyce Forte
Bride's last name JONES
Bride's marital status sp
Bride's age 19
Bride's residence of 18 Springfield Rd
Bride's father's first name(s) William Wells
Bride's father's occupation college servant
By licence or banns by banns
County Cambridgeshire
Notes witness Ada Rose JONES


(no luck 1911, wasn't for want of trying!, frustrating!)

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/tips_board/thread/1336002

http://www.genesreunited.co.nz/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1292797?d=asc

Chris :)


1911 (Find My Past)
Ernest Sly Head Married Male 26 1885 London Holborn Carpenter
Florence Sly Wife Married Female 30 1881 London Southwark -
Ernest Leslie Sly Son - Male 1 1910 London Lambeth -
Florence Clara Sly Daughter - Female 0 1911 London Lambeth
Address 67 Fentiman Road
Parish Lambeth
Census reference RG14PN2000 RG78PN70 RD25 SD2 ED26 SN343

(also 67, Gertrude Tipping, Frederick Charles Wilson)


London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Horace Patrick 1910 Lambeth Kennington 1 to10 Pinders Mews Lansdowne Gardens S.W.


Births Dec 1895 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------------
Batt Florence Mary Medway 2a 572


Baptism
County Kent
Place Chatham
Church St Pauls
RegisterNumber 424
DateOfBirth
BaptismDate 22 Dec 1895
Forename Florence Mary
FatherForename Thomas
MotherForename Alice
FatherSurname BATT
MotherSurname
Abode East St
FatherOccupation Pensioner R N

http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl

1911 possible
Name: Florence Batt
Age in 1911: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1897
Relation to Head: Inmate
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Chatham, Kent, England
Civil Parish: Portsmouth
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England
Street address: Royal Seamen and Marines Orphan Home and School, St Michael's Road, Southsea
Occupation: Domestic Training
Registration district: Portsmouth
Registration District Number: 90
Sub-registration district: Portsmouth and Mid Southsea
ED, institution, or vessel: 28-33
Piece: 5620



1911 possible
Name: Alice Emma Batt
Age in 1911: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation to Head: Servant
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Sheerness, Kent, England
Civil Parish: Yarmouth
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England
Street address: Yarmouth, Rectory, I Of Wight
Marital Status: Widowed
Occupation: Domestic Servant
Registration district: Isle of Wight
Registration District Number: 93
Sub-registration district: Calbourne
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Household schedule number: 72
Piece: 5780
Household Members:
Name Age
Harry Fiennes Speed 54
Alice Emma Batt 39

1911 rule this one out

Name: Thomas Parr
Age in 1911: 59
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Limehouse
Civil Parish: St Pancras
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 47 Savernake Road, Gospel Oak NW
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 37
Estimated Marriage Year: 1874
Occupation: BLACKSMITH
Registration district: St Pancras
Registration District Number: 9
Sub-registration district: North St Pancras
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Piece: 762

Well there's a co-incidence! Chris may recall my searches for a Florence Weston, prior to her departure for Buenos Aires she was staying in Savernake Road! Different number tho'. Thanks for including the links to the other threads, Chris.

I think GlitterBaby is right to rule out the Thomas Parr, Blacksmith, born Limehouse. I'm fairly sure that "my" Thomas William Parr was born in Isleham, Cambridgeshire. (I haven't rechecked but while investigating outgoing sailings for my father I recall that I came across a Thomas Parr, blacksmith, sailing to BA!)

The record for Florence Batt is useful, thank you. It suggests that her father Thomas was a seaman. That would have been a logical assumption given they lived (I think?) in Chatham but this is further evidence. Also confirmed by Florence's birth record.

Sophie Batt was two years younger.

So the Parrs are still missing in 1911 ...