Genealogy Chat

Sammy wouldn't the husband still be next of kin if they have never divorced?MOE!

So many possible scenarios, so many possible results - the one certain thing is that there are so, so many people 'out here' thinking of your BIL and his family and hoping against hope for a good outcome. Liz

Hi Sammy, Just got back from my holidays and have been reading your thread. The first thing I would say is was the letter from the carer on letter headed paper? would Social Services be able to tell you if this person was actually an allocated carer for her? you need to confirm who this person is, and if they are telling the truth before you go any further. Have you thought of contacting a neighbour to see if you can find out anything,maybe they would know what sort of health she was in, there are so many possible scenario's at the moment, BIL mother may not want to see him, she may be scared of seeing him and re-living the past, or she may even have written the letter herself to put him of making contact. If she is ill you need to establish what with, for BIL peace of mind, but also you could state to SS you are concerned that this may be a heriditarty problem (also if he decides to go through his GP this would be an excuse for his GP to phone BMothers). Think he will have to try and be a little more patient till you can get some more information. If she is very ill, it may be necessary to take a more gentle approach to try and get the answers he is looking for. One thing though, time gives people selective memories he may not ever get the answers he's looking for :O( their will be his BF version of events his BM 's and somewhere in the middle the truth. Just tell him to make no judgements till he has all the facts, most of the people that have given him information are bound to have been biased. Let me know if you need a look up for his neighbours details. I wish you all the Luck in the World with this search, and hope he has a happy outcome. Best Wishes Sheila

hi Sammy, Nothing to add to the excellent advice you have been getting on here, except to say I do hope that your BiL gets a good result with this. wishing him all the very best in his quest to see his Mother. Ann Glos

Karen. BIL was his mothers child by her husband. He went to live (aged 3)with his paternal grandparents when his father separated from the mother. Ann

I was going to nudge it up too!! lol If you manage to get online sam, there's lots of folks on here thinking about you + BIL. Take care Ann x

nugged

Nudged for Smiley Sammy, out of shameless nosiness - don't want the thread to disappear down a hole while she is away. Marjorie

Sammy I've been following this thread since the beginning and would just like to add my bit. I think your BIL would certainly be best off seeking the help of a third party. I know the Salvation Army has been suggested but personally I would try with the local priest/vicar first. Mainly because he may have prior knowledge of the lady in question. Even if he doesn't I would've thought it would be much less of a shock to her to see her local priest/vicar walking down her garden path than a stranger from the SA. I'm sure that if you spoke to the local vicar/priest they would do this. We did this when we were seeking out info on one of our sisters who we knew had been adopted and christened as a catholic in a local town. We contacted the two local catholic churches who ran searches. One of them said they were really sorry but they couldn't find anything in their records. The other said they'd look and do what they could and then totally changed tact when contacted again, which made us dig a little deeper and we found her.(They protested a little too loudly) Sorry for waffling but my point being that the church was still the best place to go for first point of contact. I also think your BIL should set out a plan of action and work his way through it ie contact vicar, contact CAB/solicitor, have someone check out house for comings and goings and ultimately visit himself, but he should be prepared for the worst that she genuinely doesn't want contact and if that is the case to be able to say to himself well I did everything I could now I have to let it go. I think he should also bear in mind that if she was so afraid of his father that she didn't dare divorce him for fear of him finding out where she is that it is a genuine fear. Maybe he could reiterate to the third party that he has very little contact with his father, that his father is unaware that he is even looking for his mother never mind found her and under no circumstances would he ever tell him where she is. Hope this helps Michele

I've just got back from a holiday and read this whole thread through. As a 'fiction' it would be intriguing - a good (if haunting) read - but to know it's fact... I'm just glad I haven't had to begin to face such a situation. One thing that you've mentioned twice.. the stillbirth. The second time, it was while BiL's dad was there? And he's known to have been violent to her during the marriage? Has anyone said what caused the stillbirth? If it was the result of that encounter, one can see why she'd be afraid of any contact which might carry a risk of the dad getting to know her whereabouts. Don't think I can add anything useful - apart from caring about the outcome - but would add my voice to those who advocate being careful-but-persistent. best wishes - Christine

Can I just add something else. I too had one like this in my family, a cousin. It took 30 or more years before he looked for his mother but he did. Found her, my one advice to him was don't look back, don't think about what happen and blame anyone. It was between your mother and father not you. Now it was my mum's brother god bless them, but they would stick together. My dad was pleased for him and gave few clues where to look for his mother as my parents had my cousin live with them before I was born they were close. Now my brother can remember she wrote wanting to see the boys but they were never told as by this time they had moved back with their father. I have now met Auntie and I don't blame anyone. If any think I feel so sorry for all involved. How does he know his father was not violent he would have been to young. If he's only heard one side then its possible there was more to it. But he does have to let her know that her address will be kept secret, he does not blame her only wants to get to know her and for her to get to know her granddaughter. If only we could wave wands. All the best Irene

Hi Sam, I have been following your thread for some time now and feel great sympathy for your BIL in what is such a sensitive and personal matter. Social Services are so tied up in red tape that I feel they will not be able to help particularly because their duty lies with his mother who is their client and not with BIL. However, the Salvation Army seems a very sensible route to go down, as they have no sides in this matter and can deal with it in a sensitive and supportive manner for both your BIL and his mother. Also his mother may have got over the shock and changed her mind about seeing him by now. Also, your BIL could have a FREE half hour consultation under the Legal Help Advice and Assistance Scheme with a solicitor who deals in family and children matters. He could ask them to contact his mother's doctor for a Medical Report which at least would tell him what is actually wrong with her. He should also get advice of his legal standing regarding his mother's care and also in the event of her death. Good luck to you and BIL in whichever way you decide to turn. Kathyx P.S. Having read Michelle Pringle's reply further down this page, I agree the vicar from her local church rather than the Salvation Army would be best to pay a visit to his mother, after BIL has explained the circumstances to him. If she is nearing the end of her life, she may well want to see someone from the church to pray for her, etc., and hopefully also her son.

Just checking in before I leave, I'm very interested to hear all your points of view, and honestly no one has caused any offense, it's the different views that can really make you think. Maureen Thanks for that idea :) Marjorie(not sick of you....LOL) BIL is very open-minded about his past, has is not angry, bitter etc... his mother may well have made attempts to see him, all he has heard through his life are negative comments about her, I think it must be hard not to be influenced by that, but he doesn't seem to be at all. KG Can I just say, it wasn't quite like that. His mother didn't flee a violent marriage, never to return, abandoning her child. The marriage broke down due to her infidelity (apparently - again this is only relayed by the father & grandparents) and her husband threw her out and told her never to come back. She left, then contacted the husband and told him she was pregnant & in Weymouth, he went to her and she had a stillbirth, he was there. After that, she has never been intouch apart from one visit when she wanted money, and I wonder if we can take that with a pinch of salt too. So I've tried to tell you all everything my BIL was ever told, which as you can see, isn't much! Thank you for your thoughts too Geraldine, like you said, a mine field. If I can check in before Friday I will, but failing that I will update on my return. {{{{{{HUGS}}}}}} to you all Sam

Hi Sam In regards to names on birth certificates... this is a mine field. My mother never married but 'changed' her name to her own mother's maiden name (I'm unsure if this was done officially, it was 1948 so I doubt it, also her cirmustances were such that she wouldn't have been able to pay for it) On my birth certificate it states 'S' as her name in column 5 under Name,surname and maiden surname of mother. I know this to be untrue as her maiden name is 'D'. Like I said it's a mine field and must be very difficult for searchers who don't know all the facts.

Hello, I've been following this thread with much interest. I truly hope that your BIL gets to see his mother and put together all the mysteries that must be bugging the heck out of him. I'm not sure if anyone is of the same opinion, and I certainly don't mean to cause offense to anyone, particularly your BIL, but this woman left her 3 year old son behind when fleeing a violent husband. I just can't imagine leaving my child behind with such a violent person. If she could do that, then she can certainly make the decision not to see her 36yr old son. Of course there's all sorts of what ifs - especially those pointed out earlier - she may well have tried to make contact, or to get him back, but was stopped from doing so, somehow. Anyway, I'll stop waffling, because I know I'm not giving you any helpful advice!! Personally I would turn up on her doorstep with a bunch of flowers - pretending to be the delivery person - and see who answers. I wish your BIL the best of luck with his search. Cheers, Kylie

How about a message on the trying to find board for members living in Aberystwyth who would be prepared to have a little nose about for you, i know if the lady lived anywhere near me i would willingly take a few trips up and down the road and see if i could see any comings and goings in the house

Sammy (You must be sick of the sight of my name) I think I would keep the lines of communication open with the SS - the more conversations BIL can have with them, the more likelihood there is that something will be let slip. Also, if the Social Worker warms to him and his plight, who knows? I have heard of files 'being left on the desk' while someone goes out of the office - shouldn't say this and don't want to get any Social Worker into trouble, but I know that it does happen occasionally. Another thought that occurs to me, and I hope I am not saying anything offensive here, it isn't meant to be. I have a friend whose mother 'walked out' when he was seven years old. His father and grandparents told him that he must 'run away' if he ever saw her, as she was going to try to kill him.He saw her once outside the school and of course, he was utterly terrified, told a teacher etc. More than thirty years later, he found his mother; he was very angry with her and wanted to know why she had abandoned him and never had any contact with him. Her second husband confirmed her story - she had made countless attempts to see her son, had written, phoned, sent presents, cards and letters and had even called at the Grandparents home. She was threatened with violence (she had been an abused wife) and later was told that her son had not the slightest desire to see her, as far as he was concerned, she was dead. My friend was never told that she had tried to see him and as he was now a young adult, she gave up at this point. When he confronted his father with all this, the explanation was 'We did it for the best, son'. HE doesnt think so. Is it possible that she had made an attempt to see BIL and it was rebuffed by those who thought they 'knew best'. Sorry if this is not the case, as I said, I dont mean to cause offence. I hope you enjoy your break and that there is good news when you get back. Marjorie

I would think twice about using a newpaper story. In view of the past history it may *open doors* to other people who at the moment do not know BILs mothers whereabouts. I can see where Janet is coming from with this idea but would have serious reservations about actually doing it. BIL could, of course ,include a photograph of her grandaughter in his private letter to his mother. Regards Ann x

Hi Sammy, I've been following this with interest since you first posted, and while I don't have any useful suggestions, I just wanted to let you know I'm rooting for your BIL and hope it all works out for him. Enjoy your break, Julia

Sam, although your BIL can't get information out of the SS (what an appropriate name for them!) I think he could try a different approach. Instead of asking 'Does my Mother have mental health problems?' to which they won't respond, how about 'My Mother has mental health problems, doesn't she?' If they know he knows, they can respond as they aren't telling anything that isn't already known. I know this may seem not to be the best idea, but what about an article in the local paper '7 year old girl would love to meet her Gran'? Local papers love a human interest story. She may not respond but you can bet your life someone will show it to her and perhaps with a photo of a forlorn looking grandchild, it just may tug at her heartstrings.