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please can you help with the birth of alfred perkins 1840 on the 1851 census
not finding a birth for alfred

Alfred Perkins
England and Wales Census, 1851
Name: Alfred Perkins
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1851
Event Place: Saint Andrew Holborn Above The Bars, Middlesex, England
Registration District: Holborn
Residence Note: Eagle Court
Gender: Male
Age: 11
Occupation: Braziers App
Relationship to Head of Household: Son
Birth Year (Estimated): 1840
Birthplace: St Andrew Holborn, Middlesex
Page Number: 48
Registration Number: HO107
Piece/Folio: 1513 / 454
Affiliate Record Type: Household
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Samuel Perkins Head Male 44 Sheerness, Kent
Thomas Perkins Wife Female 40 St Giles, Middlesex
Frances Perkins Daughter Female 22 St Andrew Holborn, Middlesex
Julia E Perkins Daughter Female 11 St Andrew Holborn, Middlesex
Alfred Perkins Son Male 11 St Andrew Holborn, Middlesex

this is the family

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1348080

Here they are in 1841. Several household on the transcript. (I have edited out the others)

Record Transcription:
1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Eagle Street, St George the Martyr, Holborn, London & Middlesex, England

Samuel Perkins Male 30 1811 -
Francis Perkins Female 35 1806 Middlesex, England
Samuel Perkins Male 14 1827 Middlesex, England
Francis Perkins Female 12 1829 Middlesex, England
Harriott Perkins Female 10 1831 Middlesex, England
Alfred Perkins Male 7 1834 Middlesex, England
Julia Perkins Female 1 1840 Middlesex, England

thank you so alfred's birth date was wrong on the 1851 census please can you find if samuel harriott and alfred married

not sure samuel 1827 is the son of francis found this birth


Samuel Perkins
England Births and Christenings
Name Samuel Perkins
Gender Male
Christening Date 03 Dec 1827
Christening Date (Original) 03 DEC 1827
Christening Place SAINT ANDREW,HOLBORN,LONDON,ENGLAND
Birth Date 12 Nov 1827
Father's Name Samuel Perkins
Mother's Name Sarah

Here's Julia's birth from Freebmd but it isn't showing on the GRO index for some reason.

Births Mar 1840 (>99%)
Perkins Julia Eleanor Holborn 2 133

Maybe the Alfred b. 1834 died and they used the name again?

i think the mother's name is francis martin

Hmm.... That Samuel would only have been 13 when the 1841 census was taken. Nevertheless perhaps Franses was a second wife for Samuel. Always possible looking at the children's ages.

????

Record Transcription:
1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Fenwick Court, St Andrew Holborn Above Bars, Holborn, London & Middlesex,

Samuel Perkins Head Married Male 23 1828 Coppersmith St Andrew's, Middlesex, England
Harriot Perkins Wife Married Female 22 1829 - St Giles, Middlesex, England
Ann Perkins Daughter - Female 4 1847 - St Giles, Middlesex, England

PERKIN, JULIA ELEANOR MARTIN Order
GRO Reference: 1840 M Quarter in HOLBORN UNION MIDDLESEX Volume 02 Page 133

thank you not finding a marriage for samuel and harriot perkins

Name: Samuel Perkins
Gender: Male
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 16 May 1830
Marriage Place: St Giles in the Fields, Camden, England
Spouse: Frances Martin
Register Type: Parish Register

Samuel a bachelor, Frances a spinster otp.

Witnesses Wm Taylor & E Turley.

Marriage of Harriot daur of Samuel????


Name: Harriett Perkins<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Gender: Female
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 6 Jan 1851
Marriage Place: St John, Clerkenwell, Islington, England
Father: Samuel Perkins<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse: James Gerrard Roberts
Register Type: Parish Register

Both bride and groom of full age, of Lamb Court.

Bride's father Samuel Perkins a brazier, groom's father James Pitcher Roberts a labourer. Groom a poulterer.

Marriage of Samuel son of Samuel?

Name: Samuel Christopher Perkins
Gender: Male
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 7 Jan 1850
Marriage Place: St John, Clerkenwell, Islington, England
Father: Samuel Perkins<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse: Harriet Wright
Register Type: Parish Register

Both bride and groom of full age, both of Lamb Court. Groom a coppersmith & brazier, groom's father a coppersmith & brazier. Bride's father Stephen Wright a master chimmey sweeper.

Name: Samuel Christopher Perkins
Baptism Age: 3 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Record Type: Baptism
Birth Date: 6 Aug 1828
Baptism Date: 19 Sep 1831
Baptism Place: St Giles in the Fields, Holborn, Camden, England
Father: Samuel Perkins
Mother: Frances Perkins
14 Sheric (?) Lane

Name: Frances Matilda Perkins
Gender: Male
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 26 Sep 1830
Baptism Place: Queen Square St George the Martyr, Camden, England
Father: Samuel Perkins
Mother: Frances Perkins
Fisher Street


Name: Alfred Mark Perkins (born Dec 19th 1834)
Gender: Male
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 11 Jan 1835
Baptism Place: Queen Square St George the Martyr, Camden, England
Father: Samuel Perkins
Mother: Frances Perkins
Little Ormond St.

Name: Isabella Perkins (1st July 1837)
Gender: Female
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 22 Oct 1837
Baptism Place: Queen Square St George the Martyr, Camden, England
Father: Samuel Perkins
Mother: Frances Perkins
13 Eagle St.


Name: Juliet Eleanor Perkins (Jan 20th 1845)
Gender: Male
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 16 Feb 1840
Baptism Place: Queen Square St George the Martyr, Camden, England
Father: Samuel Perkins
Mother: Frances Perkins
46 Eagle Street


Name: Joseph James Perkins (July 1st 1842)
Gender: Male
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 24 Jul 1842
Baptism Place: Queen Square St George the Martyr, Camden, England
Father: Samuel Perkins
Mother: Frances Perkins
52 Eagle street


Name: Priscilla Perkins (10th April 1844)
Gender: Female
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 5 May 1844
Baptism Place: Queen Square St George the Martyr, Camden, England
Father: Samuel Perkins
Mother: Frances Perkins
52 Eagle Street

Marriage of Alfred Mark Perkins son of Samuel and Frances...

Name: Alfred Mark Perkins
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: 25
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1834
Marriage Date: 25 Dec 1859
Marriage Place: Gray's Inn Road Holy Trinity, Hackney, England
Father: Samuel Christopher Perkins<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse: Elizabeth Wallis
Register Type: Parish Register

Groom a 25 yr old bachelor, tinman, of 33 Laystall street.
Bride a 25 yr old spinster of 532 Gt Saffron Hill.

Groom's father Samuel Christopher Perkins a coppersmith.
Bride's father Joseph Wallis a coachman.

Note names of Samuel Christopher Perkins and Alfred Mark Perkins as bridegrooms tally with baptisms for Alfred Mark Perkins 1834 and Samuel Christopher Perkins born 1828 bap 1831, both have parents recorded as Samuel and Frances .

I couldn't find a baptism for Harriet Perkins.

Death for Isabella baptised 1837:

PERKINS, ISABELLA 2
GRO Reference: 1839 J Quarter in OF THE HOLBORN UNION MIDDLESEX Volume 02 Page 76


Death of Joseph James born 1st July 1842 (I assume the '8' is 8 months)

PERKINS, JOSEPH JAMES 8
GRO Reference: 1843 M Quarter in HOLBORN UNION Volume 02 Page 98

Death of Priscilla baptised 1844:

PERKINS, PRISCILLA 4
GRO Reference: 1849 M Quarter in HOLBORN UNION Volume 02 Page 131

thank you great you found all the children was thinking that harriott was not born as perkins

Looking further, I think this might be Harriet's baptism, despite the wrong forename for the mother.

The father, Samuel, is a brazier, and the abode is Eagle St, the address on other baptisms for children of Samuel and Frances, and also on the 1851 census (Eagle Court on the 1841). Also, the same church as all the other children except Samuel jr were baptised.

Name: Harriet Perkins
Gender: Female
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 9 Dec 1832
Baptism Place: Queen Square St George the Martyr, Camden, England
Father: Samuel Perkins
Mother: Mary Perkins
Eagle Street


EDIT: I've gone back and added actual birth date and abode where it was recorded, to the other baptisms of Harriet's siblings.