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A reply in another thread
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.page/board/help_clinic/thread/1249764
explains the pay-per-view system at SP, but I understand the advisors here have access, so I'd like to ask!
In my Reuben Cooper thread I mentioned my Wiltshire grx3 grfather marrying in Scotland. These are the details I have.
Marriage, 1839
- parish records, that lovely GR member Michael D pointed me to
- my transcription of the image I paid to view (with emphasis to assist)
BERNARD
Edinburgh 2nd September 1839.
(Proclaimed --- 1st September 1839. ---.)
RICHARD CASTLE BERNARD, > Gold-beater, residing No. 8
Grass-market, New - Greyfriars' Parish, and ANNE RAE,
residing same place and parish, daughter of the late
HENRY RAE, Carrier, ______
have been three times Proclaimed in order to Marriage in the Parish Church
of ------ New - Greyfriars' ---- and no objections have
been offered.
Married at Edinburgh on the 2nd day of September 1939
by the Rev. J.J. Wood, Minister of New - Greyfriars'.
1841 census -- which I then promptly found after 3 years of searching in England (per the transcription I have access to; I have not paid to view the image at SP):
Name: RICHARD BARNARD
Age: 37
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1804 [actually 1792-5]
Where born: Lanarkshire, England [sic per transcription]
> Occupation: Gold Beater
Civil Parish: Gorbals
County: Lanarkshire
Address: Rutherglen Loan N 64
Parish Number:644/2
Richard Barnard 37
Alexander McDougall 4
James McDougall 6
John McDougall 53
Margaret McDougall 35
Margaret McDougall 1
Isabella Young 20
The HOH may be an inn keeper.
This is definitely my man. His mother's surname was Castle and he was a gold beater. His surname was actually Barnard (parents' marriage, siblings' baptisms) but his baptism is entered in Wiltshire parish records 1795 as Bernard.
As mentioned in my thread on Richard Barnard
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.page/board/trying_to_find/barnard/thread/1143274
I have been in contact with someone with whom I may share Ann Rae, but he suspects that the info he has about his is duff, and we have not worked out whether we have the same one, or what her details are.
In 1851 and 1861, Richard is in the workhouse in Mere, Wiltshire.
In 1851 he was married, in 1861 he was widowed.
Ann's death, on which he is named as informant:
1858, deaths in the District of Rutherglen in the County of Lanark
BARNARD ANN, Wife of a > Gold Beater
1858 May Eleventh (and I just can't read what's under that - could be time of day, 10 h 45 ... ?), Wardlawhill Street, Rutherglen
(sex) F
(age) 53 year 2 months
(father) HENRY RAE, Merchant, Deceased, deed [?]
(mother) ANNE RAE, Maiden Name NICOL, Deceased
(cause of death) Gangrene of the legs 17 days as certified by Duncan Greenhill Surgen Rutherglen Who Saw Deceased May 18th
(burial place) Church Yard Rutherglen as certified by William [?] Sexton
(informant) RICHARD BARNARD, his X mark, Husband Present, Archibald Gilchrist, Registrar, Witness
(registered) 1858 May 17th at Rutherglen, Archibald Gilchrist, Registrar
She was 53 yrs 2 mo in May 1858 so born c March 1805.
In 1839 she would have been ~34 years old
-- so there could have been births to the marriage
(children would be half-siblings of my grx2 grandparent born in England c1821).
What I would love to have:
1. Ann(e) Rae's birth details and any siblings
- father Henry Rae, mother Anne Nicol.
2. Any births to the Bernard/Barnard-Rae marriage
(I looked at many possibles but could not identify any that worked).
3. Ann(e) Bernard/Barnard in the 1841 and 1851 censuses
- I can't find her for looking at the site I subscribe to, and hope that a search at SP might turn her up.
4. An accurate transcription of Richard Barnard in the 1841 census (the easy one).
Thanks! and no rush, I've been at this one a while. ;)
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Re question 3 - I have just seen this in the 1841 Scottish census:
Name: N K Bernd
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1806
Where born: Scotland
Civil Parish: Glasgow College
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 51 Gallowgate
Occupation: Sp D
Parish Number: 644/1
Isabella Small 50
N K Bernd 35
I wonder whether that image could be checked at SP to see what the name looks like and any other info it might have.
Also on that question - on the 1851 English census, I see:
Name: Ann Barncord - it says Barnard
Age: 46
Estimated birth year: abt 1805
Relation: Servant
Condition as to marriage: Unmarried
Where born: Cipland Last
-- could that "Last" be "Scot'd", and can you interpret the first part any better than that, or than I can? (or, how does FMP transcribe it all?)
Civil Parish: Walcot
County/Island: Somerset
Bath is about 20 miles north of Mere ...
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Looking at the 1841 census image that you mention in your last post I think the name is NK Baird, not born in Scotland.
I can't make out the occupation. It looks like Sp. D.
Kath. x
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Ah, thank you, one down. ;) I'm a fan of ruling out!
Edit -- A PM from Linda advises me that FreeCEN has it as NK Baird, Spirit Dealer, so it all adds up as not being my Ann.
I added an English possible above -- I ask about that one just on the two heads theory, since I can't make out that place of birth, and to see whether FMP did any better a job of deciphering it.
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Sorry, the 1851 census image on Findmypast is very poor. The birthplace is transcribed as Cipland, Somerset. It does not look like Scotland to me but I have been looking at an online map and I can't find anywhere in Somerset today called Cipland. I thought it may have been Cissland (using the old fashioned way of using "fs" instead of the double s, but I can't find anywhere with that name either.
Kath. x
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Somerset does make most sense I think -- since that's the census place, it makes sense it would be abbreviated. Although ... the ones born Bath and Bristol etc. don't show any county with ... I'm going to have to ponder that one some more.
edit - a wildcard search for anyone anywhere anytime born in c?p*d finds (in addition to hundreds born in Copford, Essex):
Name: Rebecca B Dykes
Age in 1901: 53
Estimated birth year: abt 1848
Relation: Head
Where born: Capland, Somerset, England
and redoing the search with Capland as place of birth finds about 100 total.
Google maps finds
Capland
Hatch Beauchamp, Taunton, Somerset TA3, UK
so I think that's the place.
I do expect that Ann(e) Barnard/Bernard was in Scotland in 41 and 51 so that's what I'm hoping might be found at SP.
Edit - Tuesday the 22nd
Too bad we don't have our timestamps anymore ...
I thought of making this request when I posted my first, about Reuben Cooper in Notts, and was reminded of Michael D finding me this grx3 grfather in Scotland and how I couldn't find more info about his wife. (I've just tried again at SP and remembered that there seems to be no such Ann Rae birth at the right time.)
When I got around to collecting and posting the info a while later, I didn't realize there was about to be a run on Scottish records immediately after I posted this request.
I guess I'll just hope that when it settles down, someone might be able to find Ann(e) Bernard/Barnard in the 1841/1851 Scottish censuses via SP (maybe in Rutherglen?), since I can find nothing via the site I subscribe to.
But as we say, they've been dead 150 years now, so another couple of weeks won't kill anybody. ;)
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(Please see edit in post above.)
It would kind of help me to know what searches were tried for this -- the big thing being that I'd like to find Ann(e) Bernard/Barnard, born c1805, probably in Lanarkshire, most likely living in Edinburgh in the 1841 and 1851 censuses.
I truly have tried myself, for instance buying the 1841 image for
Name:Ann Berwind
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1811
Where born:Midlothian, Scotland
Civil Parish:Edinburgh St Cuthberts
County:Midlothian
Address:Leith Walk 3 Hope Ch
Occupation:F Servant
My big problem is that Ancestry doesn't give access to images, so one can just go randomly checking vague possibilities, and it's too expensive to do that at SP.
Additional info from my records on this search: what seem to be Ann Rae's brothers in 1841, Alexander Rae 24 and William Rae 26, at the address Ann Rae and Richard Bernard gave when they married in 1839: 8 Grass Market, New Greyfriars. No Ann with them, Richard in Gorbals.
Can I assume that searches for her in the 1841 and 1851 Scottish censuses have been fruitless?
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i cant see them sorry. The one transcribed as Barwind doesnt come up on Scotlands People.
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I see the 1841 Richard Barnard Gold beater on the 1841 but he hasnt got a wife with him. he is staying at the Sun & ???? cant read. Mr Mcdougal is the inn keeper
1841 BARNARD RICHARD M 37 GORBALS GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/02 067/00 011
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Thanks, yes, that's Richard, good to confirm Ancestry hasn't just omitted his wife (as Ancestry does do -- I just got a PM about an omitted person on an English census!). And that it's an Inn. (Ancestry had some garbled nonsense for that, I think.)
I shall plough on, have a possible lead coming from another direction. Ta!
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For completeness, Tracey has used SP credits to find me more info.
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.page/board/trying_to_find/any/thread/1249904?page=2
There are several births in Fife to a Henry Rae, >> carrier (the father's occupation on the 1839 Rae/Bernard marriage certificate) and a Margaret Nicol. I had made a note of these births myself some time ago, but had not thought to look at the images to check the father's occupation against the info I had from the marriage and certificates. There was no daughter Ann, and the mother's name didn't match with Ann's death record.
I think it likely that the informant of Ann's death in 1858 (Ann Rae Barnard's husband Richard) did not know his wife's mother's name; she was likely long deceased. So he just gave the same name as his wife. Probably the Henry Rae + Margaret Nicol births are my Ann's siblings.
Possibly the Helen Rae born in 1805 (matching the age on Ann's death record) is actually my Ann Rae.
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