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Thanks for that Evie - it may be worth me taking out a subscription I think!

I confused myself earlier - the birth certificate which arrived wasn't a replacement. I'm still waiting on the replacement certificate which is the marriage one but yes, I'm certain it's the right marriage. Dad remembers nan's and grandad's wedding anniversary as always being one year more than his age and he was born in 1923.

Still looking forward to receiving it though, not least because it's paid for! Lol! Also looking forward to receiving Clifford's to get his dad's first name.

Now I have to get ready for work. I have a very quiet day lined up 'people' wise but have at least two reports to finish and goodness knows how many emails to plough through, so I'll have to try and take a total computer break at lunchtime for the sake of my eyes rather than using the time to do more online research! Wonder if I'll manage it?

Viv - death record says 1898 (not sure whether you have Ancestry access so here it is):

Name: Miriam Viva Perkins
Birth Date: 2 Dec 1898
Death Registration Month/Year: Dec 1998
Age at death (estimated): 100
Registration district: Peterborough
Inferred County: Cambridgeshire, Huntingdonshire, Lincolnshire, Northamptonshire
Register number: C29G
District and Subdistrict: 3351C
Entry Number: 255

I wonder, did she make it to her 100th??


Birth record says Viva, too.

"you're still thinking the Irene marriage and child are correct?"

-- I meant Ivy, not Irene, didn't I ...

Looking forward to the sorting. I think I'll stay away from the other crew. ;)

Ha! Still waiting on Clifford's birth certificate for confirmation, but after lots of digging I'm fairly certain I've found Viv.

Her birth name was Miriam Vivia (or Viva - not sure) Smith. Born c1895, married someone Perkins, and died Peterborough 1998. Clifford's birth certificate should give me his father's name.

Rene/Reenie was Irene Kate.

There was also another sister Gladys Sylvia, and a brother William Henry, both of whom it would appear died fairly young - 14 and 19 respectively - but I really need to check that properly. I definitely can't remember nan mentioning either of them, and nor can dad. But then again, dad didn't even know that his mum's mum married twice and that two of his aunts were in fact his mum's half-sisters!!!

Now I need to dig further. Georgina (Ju - and all the time I was looking for Julia/Julie/Juliet/June etc) married someone called Ayres/Ayers, and all I know about Queenie was that her husband was called Bob and worked in a brickyard.

I really must stop for tonight though. Apart from a couple of hours spent cooking lunch and supper and doing a bit (a really small bit!) of ironing I've spent the rest of the day researching the tree. Thank goodness hubby seems to be understanding at the moment. Still, he's getting interested himself now I think. Both his parents and his older brother born in Italy, hubby himself born in Leicestershire, his aunt (again born in Italy) married to a man born and bred on the Northamptonshire/Leicestershire border, their son married to an Argentinian. Added to which one of hubby's uncles emigrated to Argentina (which I think - not sure - is how his cousin mentioned above met his wife), and now his aunt in England has revealed that there is a Norwegian connection somewhere. So that's whetted his interest somewhat!!!

Just wish that my mum (Polish, but left when she was 6 and lived in Austria until she was 19 when she met and married my dad) could give me some more info on her family. But she's just plain not interested unfortunately. :-(

I'm also waiting on my sister (married to a half-Ukrainian) to get me info on her hubby's family, and for my niece (married to a US-citizen with a French surname) to get me info on her husband, and then I'll have something wonderful to pass on for future generations of the family.

Off to give hubby a hug for being so understanding. Will have to try not to search if there's any lull at work tomorrow. Hehe!

Well wot a stroke of luck! Standingford vs. Smith, no contest if you had to choose which name to research. ;)

So it's Queenie and Viv who were half-sisters - you're still thinking the Irene marriage and child are correct? Well, birth cert will tell ...

Aha! Queenie Standingford born in Wisbech!

Also Georgina May -- Viv??

But no marriages so far ...

Might just kill my 19 year-old son!! Nan's birth certificate arrived yesterday morning (the replacement one). He has the same initial as I do and thought it was for him but couldn't work out why! The fact it said 'Mrs' on the envelope didn't seem to register with him!!!!

Anyway...

I've found out that her father was Charles Henry Smith, DOB as yet uncertain but probably around 1870 onwards. Her mother was Edith Ward, DOB probably about the same.

Charles died in about 1903 and Edith married again in 1904 - this time to George Standingford. This I found out by rifling through some old documents my mother gave me this morning - Edith Standingford was showing as my Nan's mother on a life insurance policy taken out in 1916, whereas Nan's surname is definitely Smith on the same document.

Well, at least I'm getting somewhere. Although it does look as though Nan's younger two sisters were in fact half-sisters. No wonder I couldn't find any trace of them under the name Smith.

Now I just have to wait for Clifford's birth certificate to establish Viv's real name...

Thank you so much to everyone for all of your help.

Off to research more on Charles Henry Smith, Edith Ward and the Standingfords.

Where did my last reply go?

Sorry Peter, I did reply but it didn't register.

Nan only had sisters, so unless any of them had a child outside of marriage (don't think they did) then your Derek Smith will not be directly related to them. But at the moment I'm waiting on nan's birth certificate to find out her dad's first name. From there I can hopefully discover whether or not he had brothers/cousins etc, and I will come back to you if I may when I have that information to see if there is any connection.

hi dont know if any help however remote but i am in peterborough & my sister married a smith ( derek) who's familly were from this area.
remember him mentioning an aunt viv.
from what i understand they conect with setchfields of peterborough.
as he is in his 50's could well be about right era.
also you mention a name queenie we that name is unusual & i have only ever herd of 1 wich is someone i met here years ago prob born around 1900 area married ernie mathews.
lots of long shots there but you never know

Heh, I should have said *my great-grandmother* was a Carter from Wellingborough, lol.

I do still have a cousin there though!

Looking forward to finding out who that Viv was. I had a certificate get lost in the mail last summer, and I patiently waited 3 months before inquiring after it ...

Blimey Evie

I've just properly read one of your earlier posts, about being from Wellingborough!

Guess where I am?

Small world.

Hi Evie

Thanks for all of your input.

I haven't received the certificate yet - I don't know if it got lost in the Christmas post, but the lady at the records office has agreed to send me another copy.

I've also confirmed with Dad that Clifford's birth date is correct, and I've ordered a copy of his birth certificate so I can check what Viv's real name was!

Both mum and dad only remember her as Viv, but I'm blowed if I can find anything under any name remotely resembling that! At least Clifford's birth certificate should clear that up once and for all, with the added benefit of giving me his dad's first name.

Everyone's surprised I haven't given up yet, but I'm like a dog with a bone on this one. I have so much info on grandad's side of the family (well, grandad's mother's side mostly) and so little on nan's - I can't leave everything one-sided, lol!

But did you get the Smith-Green marriage certificate yet??

Death of Clifford, still in Peterborough:


Name: Clifford John Perkins
Birth Date: 28 Feb 1931
Death Registration Month/Year: Feb 2005
Age at death (estimated): 74
Registration district: Peterborough
Inferred County: Cambridgeshire, Huntingdonshire, Lincolnshire, Northamptonshire
Register number: E1G
District and Subdistrict: 335/1E
Entry Number: 251

In case those are them, these are their deaths:


Name: Olive Muriel Perkins
Birth Date: 23 Nov 1908
Death Registration Month/Year: Sep 1984
Age at death (estimated): 75
Registration district: Leicestershire Central
Inferred County: Leicestershire
Volume: 6
Page: 1587


Births Mar 1903
Perkins Thomas Leonard Mt. Harbro' 7a 12

Name: Thomas Leonard Perkins
Birth Date: 22 Jan 1903
Death Registration Month/Year: Apr 1989
Age at death (estimated): 86
Registration district: Leicestershire Central
Inferred County: Leicestershire
Volume: 6
Page: 1590

Probably that Olive:

Births Mar 1909
Smith Olive Muriel Mt Harbro 7a 13

Could Viv have been Olive?


Marriages Dec 1929
Perkins Thomas L Smith Mt.Harbro' 7a 41
Smith Olive M Perkins Mt. Harbro' 7a 41

Aha. Viv's son Clifford:

Births Mar 1931
Perkins Clifford J Smith Peterbro' 3b 264

But there's no marriage to match.

There is this:

Marriages Dec 1927
Carter Harry Smith Peterbro' 3b 621
Smith Violet E Carter Peterbro' 3b 621

Could she have remarried quickly enough to have a new husband and child by 1931? No Carter-Perkins marriage to match.

I'm also a Carter from the Wellingborough area. Just desperately looking for cousins. ;)

Is this the Violet you're looking at?


Births Jun 1912
Smith Violet R I Winterton Wisbech 3b 975

If so, then unfortunately:

Marriages Dec 1911
Smith Walter J Wisbech 3b 1427
Winterton Margaret E Wisbech 3b 1427

-- her parents married only just before that (and likely also had children John 1914, Cecil 1916 and Eric 1921), which could rule out the others being children of the same marriage.

Hi again.

I've been doing a bit of research, and it seems from a distant relative that the Smith girls may in fact have been born in Wisbech. She's not sure though. I can definitely trace an Ivy Kathleen born June 1902 Wisbech, and also an Irene (which would cover Reenie), and a Queenie. No Viv, but there is a Violet, and dad thinks that Viv (or Vivien/Vivienne) may not have been her real name.

So all I have to do now is wait on delivery of the birth certificates to see if the mother's maiden name matches.

Here's hoping!

Thank you for your help, and if anyone knows or finds out any further information I'd be really grateful.

The geographically closest Viv* Smith so far transcribed is:

Marriages Jun 1926
King George E Smith Basford 7b 499
Smith Vivien M King Basford 7b 499

Now Basford, that's where my Smiths are from!


She would be this one:

Births Mar 1897
Smith Vivien Maynard Basford 7b 184

Who knows, we might be related yet, lol. But no, if she was born and married in Basford, she isn't likely yours.