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Ozi - my error...John and Jessie Smith are the witnesses at the marriage of William and Elizabeth Smith.

Witnesses at the marriage of Constance are John Smith (presume her uncle) and Annie Charlotte Edwards (who I have found in census annd who appears to be no relation).

Carol - Strong possibility of them being cousins, but very difficult to be certain...

Peter

Where did Constance Smith marry, & are the witnesses, John & Jessie Smith, the same people as on her parents' cert, I wonder?

Ozi.

So....I now know that William Smith (a draper), b 1828 in Scotland had a father James - a farmer. In 1855 William married Elizabeth Smith, b New Abbey/Troqueer, Scotland, father David - a farmer. They married in Birmingham.
In 1861 they are living in Birmingham with children James, Elizabeth and Margaret. After that William and Elizabeth disappear.
In 1871 the children + another named Constance are with their uncle John Smith (b 1831, Scotland) and his wife Mary Ann. John could be the brother of either William or Elizabeth although William is more likely.
After 1871 the entire family vanish from the censuses except for Constance who marries in 1883 - witnesses John Smith and Jessie Smith. Some days I wonder why I don't have an interesting hobby.

Peter

Hi team
Marriage cert details:
23 March 1855 Presbyterian church, Birmingham
William Smith 26 Bachelor Draper 61 Camden St Birmingham father James Smith (farmer)
Elizabeth Smith 25 Spinster, 60 Vittoria St Birmingham father David Smith, farmer.

Witnesses John Smith & Jessie Smith
I now have Elizabeths side sorted out, together with a Nicholson connection - but not a clue where William originated!

Peter

I have ordered the certificate - keep fingers crossed!!!!
It is due for despatch on 5 Aug so I should get it about a week lter - will update those interested....

Thanks for the help, shows that teamwork does work

Peter

Fantastic work everybody. Can't wait for the next cert.

Ozi.

Mary - yes, Elizabeth, Mum of Constance
Alison - sheer genius! with the Mortiboys! William's bro is John, Agnes's sister is Elizabeth.
I have this lot on a whiteboard - it's just like a jigsaw and the pieceds fit perfectly if I assume the marriage...will get the certificate to check.

Peter

Hi Peter,

Yes have found Edmond & Eliza married. I couldn't find them in any census after this so did a search and came up with this:

: Edmund Mortiboy - Biography 1891

They migrated to the USA 1855.

Alison

Hi Peter.

Thanks for nudging me!

Sorry i might be back tracking trying to get my head round all of this again.

(Quote) me the John Smith is her uncle from the 1871 census (I know assumption is dangerous).

Agnes's brother is John Smith is that correct?

Alison

Hi Peter at the moment i cant get round the Elizabeth thing.
Do you mean the mum of Constance

Mary

I have a theory!!

From IGI - shildren of David Smith/Elizabeth Milligan:(New Abbey, Kirkcudbright).
Agnes Kissock Smith bap 17/7/1836
Janet Kirk Smith 10/4/1831
Elizabeth Smith 2/3/1830
Jane Constance Harries Smith 18/12/1834
Mary Smith 26/5/1832

From BMD Birmingham 1855 Marriages - 4people
Eliza Lea
Edmund Mortiboys
William Smith
Elizabeth Smith
(I need to find Edmund/Eliza to confirm)BUT if William and Elizabeth Smith married AND if Elizabeth is the one b New Abbey then the whole jigsaw fits together....and explains the Nicholson connection and all the forenames

Now all I need is to work out which certificates I need to confirm - at lowest cost!!!!

Peter

I have a Constance Smith b Dec Q 1863 in Kings Norton. Given where the parents are living, is this likely to be the right one???
.(Update)..IGNORE she is with her parents in Kings N in 1881 and nothing matches.
Peter

Yes i did mean 1861 not 1801.

They were in Birmingham on all the census returns.

Mary.

Thanks Mary - looks as though you have been working quite hard for me!! I assume you mean 1861 not 1801.
Can you tell me where they were living in 1841/51?

Also, given their 1861 address in Birmingham, would they have been registered in Aston or Birmingham????

Peter

1851 William a Draper born Scotland with wife Elizabeth and servant/lodger John Crosbie born Scotland
1841 William 1829 Scotland with parents William 1806 Scotland a stone mason and wife Catherine Scotland 1801 they are now in Birmingham.
Also there is Alexander 1831
James 1836
John 1836
all born Birmingham but this coul be the John smith uncle.
1851 Catherine Scotland wife of Stone mason with her is james bricklayer 1832!! and John 1837 a Hatter.

A few coincidences there so maybe they are connected.

Maryb

Totally agree - but I still can't find her birth.

Given that these are her parents I think I need a birth cert for one of the siblings, which could take a bit of sorting out - it's the only way to get the mother's name.

No births/baptisms on the IGI that I can see.

Off to sleep on it!!

Peter

1871 census Constance with uncle John along with three others James 1858 nephew,Elizabeth 1860 neice,and Margeret 1860.
1861 all above with William 1829 Scotland a travelling draper Elizabeth Scotland and the Mehibald? Archibald.

So it is safe to say these are the parents of Constance and they must have died and they went live with uncle John.
Do you agree Peter.

Maryb

The marriage certificate has finally arrived! Dec 25th 1883 at Emmanuel Church in Camberwell.
Groom: Thomas Goodson Spalton, 27 Bach, Grocer, living Woolwich, father Thomas Spalton, Farmer (I knew that anyway.
Bride Constance Jane Boyd Smith (with full stops after each name so the Boyd-Smith in BMD index is probably wrong) 19 Spinster, -------(occ), 47 Leipsic????Road. father William Smith, Draper.
Witnesses John Smith and Annie Charlotte Edwards

I assume the John SAmith is her uncle from the 1871 census (I know assumption is dangerous).

Now I am really running out of ideas!

Peter

Must be nearly time for you receiving wedding certificate.

I bet you keep watching for the post!!!!!!!!!!.

Maryb

Hi Peter,

Has anyone found your Allan Nicholson 1851 Census.


Birth/Christening, Scotland, British Isles
Father: John Nicholson, Mother: Janet Mcdonald

International Genealogical Index / British Isles - 2
Select records to download - (50 maximum)
1. DONALD NICOLSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 23 MAR 1833 Kilmuir Parish, Inverness, Scotland

2. ALLAN NICOLSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 23 MAR 1833 Kilmuir Parish, Inverness, Scotland

Alison