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uk arrivals -the last thread

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date


Reece Report 17 Dec 2009 10:45

Following your thread with great interest!

What on earth do you mean by 'English disease' and Tolpuddle Martyrs?

Some certificates have just taken a month to get from NSW to here (where it is snowing!)

Have your tried the shipping agents for lists re your ancestor?

Merry Christmas.

Reece (an Aust. pioneers' descendant)


Edit: Colin, all is not always revealed by our ancestor's birth, marriage or death certificates - as I have found! Hope you're not too disappointed!


Lindsey* Report 17 Dec 2009 11:25

well Reece, I guess I qualify for the diseased English ! I'm diabetic and have a dodgy heart , so just a common cold can be nasty. !

Colin, you want hard evidence, just to prove our English snails move faster than yours, here it is.

The Register Office Fulham Marriage......... 4th July 1916.
{ Thats why it doesn't show on church records.}

WALTER LEVI WALDEN 51 Widower , coal carman,131 Greyhound Road Fulham,
father, GEORGE PHILIP WALDEN ,,DEC'D ,,builder and decorator


ANNIE AMELIA COX, 30 Spinster same address ..

father WILLIAM GEORGE COX,,Police constable

Same address as on son Alfred's marriage cert.

so Water senior married twice.

ROFLMAO !!!!!!!!!!


Colin Report 17 Dec 2009 11:30

Hi Reece or should I say G'day mate and merry christmas to you and yours.
Nice to hear from you and your complimentary comments. The team that has been through this marathon all deserve to be praised. The answer to your questions are that the english disease relates to the power of the unions to generally cause havoc in the community to win their members increases in pay and conditions and the first unionists who did this and were punished by your courts were those in Tolpuddle where-ever the hell that is.Hence the term Tolpuddle martyrs.Aus post has a strong union base and they are doing the same today as those martyrs did many years ago.It then follows that this is an unwanted disease imported into our country. Hope this makes sense.
I agree with you about the certificates not always representing the truth and in my case my grandfather Walter shown on my dads certificate may not be the correct father. I hope we can find something soon one way or the other to put me out of my misery.
Thanks again for your interest............colin
PS I will leave the shipping agents as a last resource as I am currently googling the net looking for shipping crew lists in and out of fremantle 1909- 1914.


Colin Report 17 Dec 2009 11:48

You have done it again I am glad I don't play cards with you as you have trumped me yet again.
Well this leaves young Walter footloose and fancy free. It seems even more important now that we find Alice F Batten and then we may find some more history about Walter.
I sincerely hope your feeling a little better than the early hours this morning.
Sincere regards ..........colin


Lindsey* Report 17 Dec 2009 11:54

1901 England Census about Annie A Cox
Name: Annie A Cox
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1889
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William G
Mother's Name: Jane A
Gender: Female
Where born: Pimlico, London, England
Civil parish: St George
Ecclesiastical parish: St Gabriel
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address:


Condition as to marriage:


Employment status:

View image
Registration district: St George Hanover Square
Sub-registration district: Belgrave
ED, institution, or vessel: 25
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 400
Household Members:
Name Age
William G Cox 41 police constable
Jane A Cox 44
Fredk A Cox 19
Amy E Cox 14
Annie A Cox 12
William G Cox 6
Florance M Cox 2

View original image

address peabody buildings


rootgatherer Report 17 Dec 2009 12:01

Well Lindsey what can we say!! Well done you for putting us out of misery before Christmas and as could be expected you were right to suspect that it was a second marriage for Walter senior.

Where to from here though?

Please excuse ignorance but what is "ROFLMAO"? Sorry, I am not au fait with text language - if that is what it is! Are the last 4 letter to do with chuckling parts of one's anatomy away?


Lindsey* Report 17 Dec 2009 12:12

Slaps Colins legs,

Why ,when the most obvious route is the shipping agents are you looking elsewhere ?
No I dont recommend cards, chess, scrabble ,I'm still far too competetive and am the the one that finishes off people's crossword puzzles too !!

root. chuckles !


Colin Report 17 Dec 2009 12:46

OK I know better than to tangle with any of you. I will check out the shipping agents. By the way I fixed my family tree without needing to involve GR technicians. Theres one for me.


Colin Report 18 Dec 2009 06:07

Hi all I'm looking at some previous info from the 1891 census and I have a note that says that Walter was born about 1884 in Fulham London-St Clement Parish. Walter Strongs info states he was born 1883 thats OK but the Parish is St Andrew West Kensington This confuses me and does it matter.The reference I have is 1891 RG 12 Piece 48 Fol 11 Page 18 Roll 6095158.


Lindsey* Report 18 Dec 2009 06:19

This is the postal address not the eclesiastical area he was baptised in
2 different things.

1891 England Census about Walter Waldon
Name: Walter Waldon
Age: 7
Estimated birth year: abt 1884
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Walter
Mother's Name: Ellen
Gender: Male
Where born: Fulham, London, England

Civil parish: Fulham

then this bit is about where the census was taken
Ecclesiastical parish: St Clement
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address:


Condition as to marriage:


Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Fulham
Sub-registration district: Fulham
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Walter Waldon 24
Ellen Waldon 24
Walter Waldon 7
George Waldon 5

Name: Walker Walden Strong
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 29 Jun 1884
Father's Name: Walter Strong
Mother's Name: Ellen Strong
Parish: Saint Andrew, West Kensington
Borough: Hammersmith and Fulham
County: Middlesex
Born 16 November 1883
they were living at Bayonne Villas then

God give me strength !
What have you done with the old threads, not deleted them I hope ?

They should all be on MY THREADS on the left of page ?


Colin Report 18 Dec 2009 10:34

I am still trying to understand the significance. Are they the same people because if so I will Just ignore what I see as a contradiction in terms. Is this OK.

Now on to the more important issue that has been driving this thread.
I am relunctantly coming to the conclusion that Walter strong levi walden may not have made it to Australia. So In looking at an alternative from the information that we have got I think we might have a breakthrough.
On my dads birth certificate the particulars are:-
Charles William Walden was born on the 18 Oct 1911 at the maternity home harvest rd north fremantle.
The full particulars of Walter Levi Walden were given and it was certified in writing by Sarah that Walter was the father. (So much for placing too much credence on certs being accurate.)
Sarah was said to be 25 and walter 27 (thats about right)
The parents were said to be living at 98 Chelmsford Rd north perth. (Tracey please note)
The witnesses were Eileen Bourke midwife and Margaret Dougherty. (Both presumably dead by now)
The next certificate - The mariage certificate of Charles William Weeks and Gertrude Laura Isard (Note that the Walden name has now been replaced by Weeks)
Over and above the nomally expected information it has some cryptic information which when looked at more closely opens up a whole new area of investigation which looks promising
I reported before that on the marriage certificate, for some strange reason, my dads mother was said to be Sarah Lovell. Well who is she? I think Sarah Walden/Weeks left this as a clue. Its her.She is talking about herself.
Why; Because I have found new information on a shipping list that shows a Mr Charles Lovell then 22 making him born about 1885 ( calculated from the age given on the shipping register) . He was stated to be a farmer and he left London on the Omrah on the 1st November 1907 for Fremantle.(The record is on p3 of 15.) He would already have had 3 years in W.A. when Sarah arrived early Jan 1911.
I know he could be any Chas Wm Lovell but I have selected two people as likely candidates because they carry the same name as my father "Charles William" and their date of birth matches the travellers.
They are Chas Wm of Bedford (see Jun Q 1886 3b 360) or,
Chas Wm of South Stoneham (see Sep Q 1886 2c 47.)
(I need your help here because I don't know your farming areas.)
What a relief I think I am on the right track. I've felt that way before about a few things so I pass it on to you, my excellent experts. Tear it to shreds if you can.
If this is thought to have some legs to run on then I will get more local information about the residents of Chelmsford Rd before, at the time of, and after the birth of chas wm Walden becuase that may give some indication of who is living there.
I'll do this on my return from Bali which is late Dec. Given that this is the new year holiday period it might take a few days to crank up again.
I'm pretty pleased with this breakthrough and I really hope its right.

Now for the more mundane matters Still no snail mail not that it matters anymore and 2 days left before I go to Bali.
Bye for now. ...........colin


Gee Report 18 Dec 2009 13:14


While my head tries to absorb and make sense of your last post, here’s a little tip

Can you please break up your information (When writing) into ‘followable’ paragraphs?

Every time you post I have to read it three times to even start to understand it........however with your last post that may never happen


Why did your dad become ‘Weeks’?
Sarah Walden, you say is now Sarah Lovell?
And who are these two men with the name ‘Lovell’, have you plucked them out of thin air?
Is it all plucked out of thin air?


Lindsey* Report 18 Dec 2009 13:34

I wondered when you would throw this one out, when I first viewed your tree with all those extra surnames it did look odd. So this isn't new information,you have known this all along.

I can fully understand why Mrs Colin needs a break.


Colin Report 18 Dec 2009 18:33

To Ginny
Please let me explain. My dad became a Weeks because he was raised by tom weeks and sarah walden
This relationship was discussed between Lindsey and I not long ago.
They had a long relationship which I guess started around 1914/5 because, I believe my dads biological sister was madge and she was born in 1914. What I am saying is the same person would be their father and it is not tom weeks.
My dads wedding was not until 1935 so tom weeks and sarah had been together a long time
I am sure that was a happy time for sarah who as we have seen has had a tough time over the years.
Now about the Lovell connection I did not say she was Mrs Lovell I made the point it was a cryptic message, something left in code for others to follow at a later date.To spell it out I believe she is saying that there was a relationship between her (the 'sarah' part of the name and Charles William Lovell (the 'Lovell' part of the name.) Hence "sarah lovell"- "her"!
Now for the two selected Lovells. No (he says wearily) they were not plucked out of the air, in fact the opposite is true, a lot of time and effort was spent in trawling the BMD's searching for the right connection. I narrowed it down to the final two because their names and dates of birth matched the guy on the shipping information which I have just obtained and they carry the same christian names as my father Charles William Walden known as Weeks who may be Lovell
I hope you can now see how this fits and why I was so excited.

I want to say this delicately because I am a little disappointed in your comments.
I have made it clear all along that I respect your thinking ability and your prowess as a researcher and that has not changed. However I need you to understand that until yesterday I never made the connection between the two Lovell candidates and Sarah.
I flirted with the idea of a Lovell connection a long time ago but gave it up.
Until the last couple of days I lived in the hope that we would find something that showed Walter was my grandfather.
Do you think it has been fun to lose that belief ?
It was only yesterday that I got the shipping information that gave me the connection to the christian names of the traveller which are the same christian names given to my father on his birth. That was then linked to the marriage certificate information.
Yes it may only be coincidental and there are no other certificates to back it up but in view of where I am in reaching some sort of truth about my grandfather its the best news I've had in a very long time.
Its interesting to me that up till now most of the people in what I like to call "our team" berated me for not recognising that Walter was not my grandfather.
Now that I have reached this very hurtful understanding and have turned my efforts into finding the right person, I am judged by you to have somehow known about this information all the time and presumably witheld it leading people on a wild goose chase.
I am truly sorry if you feel this way because it simply is not the truth.
I am going to ignore your last paragraph because firstly its not relevant to our discussion and secondly, and please dont take this the wrong way - I have grown fond of you in the nicest possible way.
I still want and need your help and guidance in the team as I will miss you if you no onger contribute
I'm sure this search is now close to finishing and I am slowly convincing myself that the wealth of interesting data we have captured on Walters history is worthwhile and will not go to waste.
I hope we can finish on a high note and metaphorically all be together at the end of this long journey.

Countdown one day to go before boarding the flight to Bali. It cant come quick enough. ...........colin


Gee Report 18 Dec 2009 19:08


I cant respond just now as I have to re-read the info a few times...more paragraphs please



Lindsey* Report 18 Dec 2009 23:09

Oh no Colin, please not another theory ! Cryptic messages, what are you thinking about !

I'm not going to go into the fictitious Mr Lovell, why does he need to be english, do stop grabbing BMD records and creating stories around them ? That's got more holes in it than my best vest !!!

Oh and before you go, the internet is not such a friendly place, you need to realise you have told the whole world you will be away for Christmas, so don't forget to lock the back door.!


iki Report 18 Dec 2009 23:36

Nudge Nudge x good luck


WayneTracey Report 19 Dec 2009 01:08


Ok so now you have presumed Charles and 'Madge' were of the same parents??

As we have fairly certainly proved Walter never went to Aus, Charles is of unknown fathering.... have you got 'Madge's' cert? Whom does it say is her father?

Now i would wager it's not Mr Weeks and nor is it Mr Walden, altho i supect that Mr Walden's name has been used again??

I do think you might have to finally admit Sarah was not the character you thought she was..... Did she name herself Lovell to hide?? Not to give you any clues, Please!!! people do not p*ss about with birth certs..... if she wanted to give you clues she had plenty of time to reveal them in 'family stories'.... she has kept all this secret for a very good reason, she's porbably ashamed of herself and what she was capable of.

As has already been suggest to you, Mr Lovell might not have been Englaish..... and could well have been Australian!!!! She was already there, and seems she only used the Walden name to stop her children being illigitimate??

If i were you i'd order 'Madge's' birth cert..... she's born 1914/15??? well we know exactly where Walter Walden was then (the military and an STD hospital) ...this will give you catagorical prrof if she's name Walter as the father, that she's LIED!

Please Colin, as has already been suggested, stop trying to Mills & Boon everything!!!!

You may never know whom Charles's father was, and it seems that was intentional otherwise Sarah would have reveal it herself... Maybe Sarah never knew herself??

...... a leading question..... how did Sarah support herself going alone to Aus??

Tracey xx


Colin Report 19 Dec 2009 01:33

Hi Lindsey,
As always I appreciate what you say but am sorry you do not share my enthusiasm.

I am going to pursue this line of enquiry, independently if I have to because nothing else now makes any sense.

You ask why does he have to be english. He doesn't have to be but you have to remember perth was still less than 100 years old and its population in 1911 was only 30,000 people. This was after a huge influx of people looking for gold in the 1890's

Our population was not much more than one of your smaller villages with most of the people being born in England anyway.

I hope this gives you a better perspective of my city and its people.

Thanks for your concern about my house.
We recently had one of the family cars torched on our driveway in the middle of the night so our security has been beefed up.
I also have three very fit and strong young adults in my house with a big dog, a cat and two grand kids -. so burglars are welcome to try their luck in the short time I and my wife will be away.

Keep well and bye for now.


Colin Report 19 Dec 2009 01:38

Hi Kim,
Nice to see you on the thread.
Were nearly finished.
I hope you are getting somewhere with your search.
Regards .......Colin