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Derbyshire Parish Records

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date


ErikaH Report 16 Oct 2022 12:33

Always go to Google first for such enquiries

But, I would have thought it obvious that using arms etc to which someone is not entitled is illegal


Maureen Report 16 Oct 2022 12:20

Thank you for your replies, I did ask about this generally on Genes a few years ago but no conclusion was reached. It has been on the back burner since. I just wondered if Derek had any ideas
. I would have thought it was misrepresentation too, but I can find no connection to the armorial family concerned. Will post if I find the answer!



ArgyllGran Report 14 Oct 2022 14:49

And a lot more:


ArgyllGran Report 14 Oct 2022 14:48

From a Google search (the usual way of finding out stuff!):

"Heraldic fraud may mean either to falsely claim the right to a coat of arms (or other component of heraldic display) for oneself, or to falsely assert that someone else has that right in order to sell heraldic art to them. Both can be seen as a kind of fraud and an infringement of intellectual property rights.

According to the law of arms in most heraldic jurisdictions, usage of a pre-existing coat of arms must be predicated on some form of family relationship. Typically, inheritance of arms flows through the male line, though in many traditions it may flow through the female line as well.
A typical piece of "bucket shop" heraldic artwork, which would be referred to as the "Morris family crest"

The term "bucket shop" is sometimes used to refer to a company that will sell a coat of arms (often referred to by the misnomer "family crest") associated with the customer's surname, regardless of whether the customer can actually claim a relation to the original armiger.[1][2] Bucket shops may work from a database of surnames and shields sourced from manuscripts, armorials, and various journals.[citation needed] A common indicator of "bucket shop" arms is the display of the surname within what should be the motto scroll. "


ErikaH Report 14 Oct 2022 11:06

I would have though the answer was 'no'. Tantamount to fraud - false representation at best


nameslessone Report 14 Oct 2022 10:45

That is a very interesting question. It would reach wider ‘audience’ as a separate thread.


Maureen Report 14 Oct 2022 10:40

Hi Derek,
Glad you're still giving a helping hand.
My query is a bit different. It's one that I don't seem able to find the answer to, so I am hoping with your wide knowledge you might know a thing or two about seals. (Not the mammal type either).
My query is this, was it legal for someone to use the emblems & motto of an armorial family if they weren't descended from them but just happened to have the same surname. Hoping you can come up with the answer



greyghost Report 4 May 2022 10:44



greyghost Report 9 Feb 2022 12:14

Well, you've made your return Derek, welcome back - hopefully some enquiries will head your way.


Derek Report 7 Feb 2022 23:37

I'm still trying to get back on these boards,,three atempts..three separate subscriptions taken and billed....and i'm still trying to send a message to all my previous fans!! Let's try this one!!!


greyghost Report 18 May 2021 17:02

Yes, that was me and I did say I didn't know if Derek was still available to help, but it might be worth trying a PM by clicking on his name or posting on the thread. His thread may have slipped down the boards just because no-one has used it. Nothing ventured ...........


ErikaH Report 18 May 2021 13:21

Someone posted the link to this thread on Ellen's thread!!


ArgyllGran Report 18 May 2021 12:51

Ellen -

It's a long time since there was any activity on this thread (November 2018).
It's possible Derek may not see your post.

You can try sending him a private message - click on his name in green at the top of one of his posts.


Ellen Report 18 May 2021 02:42

Hi Derek Wondering if you are able to solve my query? I have Great grandmother ANN HARRISON born 1803 Heage Derbyshire with parents John Harrison born abt 1763 at Derby Derbyshire died 1827 married to Ann Hunt 19/5/1788 at Duffield born abt 1764 died 1844 at Derby.
Then there is another family Thomas Harrison born 1780 & Mary Dickeson born 1781 at Wilne Derbyshire who some people have as my Ann Harrison's parents are you able to tell me who her parents actually were?
Many thanks


SylviaInCanada Report 15 Nov 2018 17:28

Hi Derek ............

so glad that you still have your marbles, and your archives!


Derek Report 15 Nov 2018 13:57

Hello Dea and Sylvia..thank you for your kind messages..Mr Modesty indeed..anything but..............but I'm still going..and i've still got my archives..(and marbles)
Derek x


Dea Report 13 Nov 2018 09:42

Perhaps we should ask how Derek is - it is 'his' thread after all ??? ;-) :-D

Back to you Derek............ <3

Dea x


SylviaInCanada Report 12 Nov 2018 20:27

yep, all fine, though my mobility is restricted with the arthritis


Dea Report 12 Nov 2018 20:03

It is now thanks you but looking back to last Christmas I was just about on death's door.
Still - All O.K. now !!

And you ???

Dea x


SylviaInCanada Report 12 Nov 2018 19:39

Hi Dea .....

yes, indeedy, though our paths rarely cross these days. Hope all is well with you and the family.