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I have already been given some good help from people and am hoping that something more will be forthcoming. There is only one other tree on this site with any info similar and he has been most helpful. However I am still unable to discover for certain who gave birth to my grandmother, and who her father was. It is strange to think that my great grandfather was born in 1823! (and that he may also be my great great grandfather.)
My grandmother was ELIZABETH MARY MARTIN. I have no date of birth as I cannot find who her real mother was.Her marriage certificate of 25/12/1902 says she was 19, gave her residence as Lestock Place (she was not there in 1901) and her father as Joseph Martin deceased Bootmaker.
In 1891 Joseph was at Brandon St with a wife, Mary Ann 32 and a daughter, Elizabeth Mary, age 6. There is no marriage for Joseph and Mary Ann. I obtained a birth certificate on spec, so to speak of a likely candidate. This did not give a father's name and the mother was Mary Ann Martin.
This seemed to fit until I was told that Mary Ann Martin was the daughter of Joseph Martin, and that the Mary Ann in 1892 was most probably the MARY ANN WARWICKER living at 136 East St in 1911. In 1901 MAW was in the Infirmarty, and Joseph Martin died a week before the census!
Mary Ann W was not with her young family in 1891. Her youngest child was born in 1880 and if she left him to have Elizabeth in 1883 he would have been very young.
A note of my mother says that Mary Ann W was in fact housekeeper to J Martin, whom I had assumed was a John.
I can find no birth record for a daughter Elizabeth born to Mary Ann W.
I then discovered that Joseph's death was registered by his daughter Martha Rae, which led me to the Rae family and to the BAILEY FAMILY. Richard Bailey had married Joseph Martin's daughter Martha. This led me to a descendant who said that Mary Ann was Joseph's daughter and had had an illegitimate son Henry in 1880. On the 1881 census she is living with William Wood and Henry age 1. at 24 Market St Southwark. The place of birth works.
by 1891 she had barried Richard Bailey and was living in Orb St.
SHE COULD NOT THEREFIORE BE THE MARY ANN in Brandon St. in 1891.
Would obtaining a copy of Henry's birth certificate tell me where she was living in 1880 and if so, would it help?
There is absolutely no indication as to where my grandmother, ELIZABETH MARY MARTIN was living in 1901. She was not at Lestock Place on the census.
Mary Ann Warwicker was described in three legal documents as 'widow' yet her husband Henry W did not die until 1935. If MAW was still married, then the child would have taken her husband's name, unless he was in the army or incarcerated.
If my grandmother was the child born in the workhouse fatherless, was Jospeh Martin put on the marriage certificate for convenience?
In 1901 there awas an Elizabeth Mary Martin living as the adopted daughter of Francis Foster. IShe was not living with the Fosters in 1891. Frederck Foster died in 1901 also. He was a lawyer so the adoption would have been done legally.
Would it help to descover where Mary Ann Martin was between 1871 and 1881? Her mother died in 1873. In 1881 her widowed father was living alone and I am not sure where Mary Ann wasafter her mother died. She may have been placed twice in 1871 t 1 Edmunds Court and there are two schools which listed a Mary Ann Martin at that time. The school nurse of one happened to be present at the birth of Elizabeth Mary born in the workhouse. The nurse's name was Sarah FROST Perhaps someone has info about her?
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