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I have a birth certificate for a child born to Henry BENTLEY & Thirza STANWAY but have unfortunately been unable to find their marriage.

07/08/1862 Harts Hill, Stoke upon Trent:-
Thirza, daughter of Henry BENTLEY, a Potter Journeyman resident at Harts Hill & Thirza BENTLEY formerly STANWAY.

I am trying to prove whether Henry BENTLEY is a relative of mine or whether he belongs to a different family. Also whether Henry was either the one born around 1821 or the one born in 1846, see below. Could someone please be kind enough to help? Many thanks in advance for any help provided.

These are the other facts that I have (I have certificates for all of the following births, marriages & deaths):-

Henry BENTLEY senior (born around 1821)

21/01/1845, Stoke on Trent - Henry BENTLEY, aged 24, a potter, resident at Mill Street, Hanley, son of William BENTLEY, a potter, married Eliza MILLINGTON, aged 23, resident at Mill Street, Shelton, daughter of William MILLINGTON, a collier.

I have identified 5 children:-
Henry born 31/10/1846, Hanley, Stoke upon Trent
Eliza born 15/05/1848, Hanley, Stoke upon Trent
Jane born 15/08/1849, Hanley, Stoke upon Trent
Hannah born 15/09/1851, Shelton, Stoke upon Trent
Mary Ann born 01/05/1859, Hartshill, Stoke upon Trent

Henry’s wife Eliza died 15/11/1860 in Hartshill, Stoke upon Trent aged 37.

1851 Census, Shelton, Vine Street:-
Henry BENTLEY Head 29 Potters Presser
Eliza BENTLEY Wife 28 Potters Painter
Henry BENTLEY Son 5 Scholar
Eliza BENTLEY Daur 3
Jane BENTLEY Daur 1

1861 Census, Hartshill, Penkhull:-
Henry BENTLEY Head, wid. 39 Potter Slip Maker
Henry BENTLEY Son 14 Potter Slip Maker
Eliza BENTLEY Daur 12 Scholar
Jane BENTLEY Daur 11 Scholar
Hannah BENTLEY Daur 9 Scholar
Mary Ann BENTLEY Daur 2


Henry BENTLEY junior born 31/10/1846:-

26/12/1870, Fenton, Staffordshire – Henry BENTLEY, aged 24, a potter, resident at Hartshill, son of Henry BENTLEY, a Manager, married Mary POINTON, aged 20, resident at Mount Pleasant, Fenton, daughter of Josiah POINTON, an Engraver.

I have identified 6 children:-
Gertrude born 03/04/1872, Fenton, Stoke upon Trent
Albert Henry born 13/06/1873, Fenton, Stoke upon Trent
Walter born 19/12/1874, Harts Hill, Stoke upon Trent
Ada born 03/06/1878, Harts Hill, Stoke upon Trent
Minnie born 01/09/1879, Hartshill, Stoke upon Trent
Thirza born 22/02/1882, Hartshill, Stoke upon Trent

1871 Census, Fenton, 20 West Parade:-
Henry BENTLEY Head 24 Potter in China
Mary BENTLEY Wife 19

1881 Census, Hartshill Mintons Cottages:-
Henry BENTLEY Head 34 Potters Fireman
Mary BENTLEY Wife 28
Gertrude BENTLEY Daur 9 Scholar
Albert H. BENTLEY Son 7 Scholar
Walter BENTLEY Son 6 Scholar
Ada BENTLEY Daur 2
Minnie BENTLEY Daur 1

1891 Census, Penkhull, 93 Richmond Street:-
Henry BENTLEY Head 44 Figure Maker
Mary BENTLEY Wife 39
Gertrude BENTLEY Daur ? Paintress Potter
Albert H. BENTLEY Son ? Potter Presser
Walter BENTLEY Son 16 Clerk (Writing)
Ada BENTLEY Daur ? Scholar
Minnie BENTLEY Daur ? Scholar
Thirza BENTLEY Daur ? Scholar
Some of the ages are illegible due to them having been crossed out on the census return.

1901 Census, Penkhull, 93 Richmond Street:-
Henry BENTLEY Head 54 Potters China Figure Maker
Mary BENTLEY Wife 48
Albert Henry BENTLEY Son, widower 27 Potters Presser
Gertrude BENTLEY Daur 28 Potters Guilder
Minnie BENTLEY Daur 21 Cripple from childhood
Thirza BENTLEY Daur 19 Potters Guilder
Albert Henry BENTLEY Grandson infant

The only one I can find is this one - could she have been married before??

Marriages Sep 1861 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ash Thirza Wolstanton 6b 100
BENTLEY Henry Wolstanton 6b 100

Do you need 1911 census? -

BENTLEY, Henry Head Married M 64 1847 China Potter County of Stafford
BENTLEY, Mary Wife Married
40 years F 58 1853 Stoke on Trent
BENTLEY, Minnie Daughter Single F 31 1880 Painters Stoke on Trent

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RG number:
RG14 Piece:
16541 Reference:
RG14PN16541 RG78PN1022 RD361 SD1 ED31 SN342

Registration District:
Stoke upon Trent Sub District:
Hanley Enumeration District:
31 Parish:
Hanley

Address:
95 Seaford St - Shelton Stoke on Trent County:
Staffordshire

Hmm, that is a possibility. That would mean that either at Henry & Thirza's marriage in 1861 or at baby Thirza's birth in 1862 Thirza used her maiden name as opposed to her married name.

That would also infer that there must be either a marriage of Thirza ASH to a Mr STANWAY or a Thirza STANWAY to a Mr ASH. I think?

Marriages Dec 1844 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ASH Samuel Wolstanton 17 323
STANWAY Thirza Wolstanton 17 323

1841 census??

STANWAY, Daniel M 40 1801 Staffordshire VIEW
STANWAY, Thirza F 15 1826 Staffordshire VIEW
STANWAY, Dinah F 15 1826 Staffordshire VIEW
MAYER, Mary F 65 1776 Staffordshire VIEW

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RG number:
HO107 Piece:
992 Book/Folio:
3/29 Page:
17

Registration District:
Stoke upon Trent Sub District:
Shelton Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Stoke upon Trent Municipal Borough:
Stoke upon Trent Address:
Union Street, Stoke Upon Trent, Shelton County:
Staffordshire


Marriage??
Marriages Dec 1844 (>99%)
ASH Samuel Wolstanton 17 323
STANWAY Thirza Wolstanton 17 323

Could this mean that you are looking at the older Henry??

Thanks for the 1911 census Lynne - I don't appear to have had that one for some reason.

Thanks also to jax.

It looks like Thirza STANWAY married Samuel ASH & then later married Henry BENTLEY. I think I shall purchase a copy of the certificate of the latter marriage. Hopefully there will be enough information to find out which Henry married Thirza. I certainly have a lot of new information to go on.

She would have been still young enough to have given birth to Thirza so the age from the above census seems ok.

I notice that I don't have census records for Henry senior apart from 1851 & 1861. Can someone possibly help out with filling the gaps?

1871 census -

BENTLEY, Henry Head M 49 1822 Staffordshire VIEW
BENTLEY, Thirza Wife F 49 1822 Staffordshire VIEW
BENTLEY, Eliza Daughter F 21 1850 Staffordshire VIEW
BENTLEY, Jane Daughter F 20 1851 Staffordshire VIEW
BENTLEY, Hannah Daughter F 19 1852 Staffordshire VIEW
BENTLEY, Mary Ann Daughter F 10 1861 Staffordshire VIEW
BENTLEY, Thirza Daughter F 8 1863 Staffordshire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG10 Piece:
2871 Folio:
25 Page:
4

Registration District:
Stoke upon Trent Sub District:
Stoke upon Trent Enumeration District:
10 Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Penkhall Municipal Borough:
Address:
Hartshill, Penkhall, Stoke Upon Trent County:
Staffordshire

1881 census -

BENTLEY, Henry Head Married M 59 1822 Potters Wage Clerk
Etruria
Staffordshire VIEW
BENTLEY, Thirza Wife Married F 58 1823
Hanley
Staffordshire VIEW
BENTLEY, Eliza Daughter Single F 32 1849 Potters Burnisher
Hanley
Staffordshire VIEW
BENTLEY, Mary Ann Daughter Single F 21 1860 Potters Paintress
Stoke upon Trent
Staffordshire VIEW
BENTLEY, Thirza Daughter Single F 19 1862 Potters Paintress
Stoke upon Trent
Staffordshire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG11 Piece:
2729 Folio:
7 Page:
8

Registration District:
Stoke upon Trent Sub District:
Stoke upon Trent Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Stoke upon Trent Municipal Borough:
Address:
Hartshill Mintons Cottages, Stoke Upon Trent County:
Staffordshire

1891 census -

BENTLEY, Henry Head Married M 69 1822 Writing Clerk
Etruria
Staffordshire VIEW
BENTLEY, Thirza Wife Married F 69 1822 Potters Paintress
Hanley
Staffordshire VIEW
BENTLEY, Thirza Daughter Single F 30 1861
Stoke
Staffordshire VIEW

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RG number:
RG12 Piece:
2176 Folio:
72 Page:
14

Registration District:
Stoke upon Trent Sub District:
Stoke upon Trent Enumeration District:
9 Ecclesiastical Parish:
Holy Trinity

Civil Parish:
Stoke upon Trent Municipal Borough:
Stoke upon Trent Address:
35, Harts Hill, Stoke Upon Trent, Hartshill County:
Staffordshire

Deaths Mar 1893 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bentley Thirza 70 Stoke T. 6b 139

Possible death??

Deaths Jun 1900 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bentley Henry 78 Stoke upon Trent 6b 156

Thankyou so much Lynne!!!

I think the reason I didn't get any further with the census searches was that I wasn't looking for a Henry & Thirza together....

1911 census -

BENTLEY, Therza Head Single F 46 1865 Home Staffs Hartshill Stoke on Trent
MACHIN, Frederick Boarder Widower M 47 1864 Earthenware Manufacturer Hanley Staffordshire

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RG number:
RG14 Piece:
16555 Reference:
RG14PN16555 RG78PN1023 RD361 SD2 ED7 SN19

Registration District:
Stoke upon Trent Sub District:
Stoke upon Trent Enumeration District:
7 Parish:
Stoke upon Trent

Address:
333 Hartshill Road Stoke - upon - Trent County:
Staffordshire

I think that this is Thirza in 1901?

BENTLEY, Theresa Head Single F 34 1867
Stoke on Trent
Staffordshire VIEW

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RG number:
RG13 Piece:
2609 Folio:
145 Page:
20

Registration District:
Stoke upon Trent Sub District:
Stoke upon Trent Enumeration District:
13 Ecclesiastical Parish:
Hartshill Holy Trinity

Civil Parish:
Stoke upon Trent Municipal Borough:
Address:
35, Harsthill, Stoke Upon Trent County:
Staffordshire

The address on the 1891 & 1901 both match - 35, Harts Hill, Stoke Upon Trent, Hartshill County.

Her age doesn't seem to match though. She should be 39 on the 1901 so perhaps the transcriber mistook 39 for 34.

1911 is a bit odd. In 1911 she should be 49 or 50 so perhaps 49 became
46.

I think I need to look at the scans to check these.

There are always discrepancies in people's ages.....

Some didn't know how hold they were, took a couple of years off to "stay younger" and some just gave a rough age

Being single, she probably told fibs about her age!

Deaths Sep 1950 (29%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bentley Thirza 88 Stoke 9b 417

Here's an update now that I've downloaded the census documents & received some certificates. This all refers to the Henry Bentley born around 1822. Some of this has already been covered above but I thought I'd try to keep it chronological:-

Henry remarried in 1861:-

12/08/1861, Cobridge Church, Burslem, Henry BENTLEY, aged 38, Widower, Potter, living in Harts Hill, son of William BENTLEY, Potter, married Thirza ASH, age 36, widow, living in Hanley, daughter of Daniel STANWAY, Potter. The marriage was witnessed by Henry STANWAY & Dinah COXON.

Before continuing it would pay to stay with Thirza ASH for a while.

In 1841 she was living with her father & sister:-

Shelton, Stoke upon Trent
Daniel STANWAY 40 Pottery Printer or Painter
Thirza STANWAY 15 Pottery Painter
Dinah STANWAY 15 Pottery Painter

Thirza had married in 1844:-

11/11/1844, Wolstanton Parish Church, Thirza STANWAY, spinster, living in Chell, daughter of Daniel STANWAY, Potter, married Samuel ASH, bachelor, Potter, living in Chell, son of Thomas ASH, Shoemaker. The marriage was witnessed by Aaron ASH & Dinah STANWAY.

Thirza & Samuel had at least one child:-

Thomas Henry ASH: born 20/10/1845, Mollart Street, Shelton; father Samuel ASH, Presser; mother Thirza ASH formerly STANWAY; registered by his mother, living at Mollart Street, Shelton on 26/11/1845.

Samuel died in 1848 aged 27:-

Died 30/11/1848, Union Street, Stoke upon Trent, age 27, Potter, cause of death: consumption, not certified, witness present at death Harriett SMITH resident in Union Street, Stoke upon Trent, registered 02/12/1848.

Thirza appears again on the 1851 census as Thirza ASH, is widowed & is living in her father’s house:-

Union Street, Hanley, Stoke
Daniel STANWAY Head 53 Potter Hanley, Staffs
Eliz STANWAY Wife 39 Hanley, Staffs
Henry STANWAY Son 9 Scholar Hanley, Staffs
Edw John STANWAY Son 7 Hanley, Staffs
Willm STANWAY Son 4 Hanley, Staffs
Catherine STANWAY Daur 2 Hanley, Staffs
Thirza ASH Lodger, Widow 28 Paintress Shelton, Staffs
Thomas ASH Son 5 Scholar Shelton, Staffs

Here is the 1861 census for Union Street, Hanley, Stoke upon Trent:-

Union Street, Hanley, Stoke upon Trent
Daniel STANWAY Head 62 Potter Hanley, Staffs
Elizabeth STANWAY Wife 48 Hanley, Staffs
Henry STANWAY Son 19 Potter Hanley, Staffs
Edwin STANWAY Son 17 Potter Hanley, Staffs
William STANWAY Son 14 Potter Hanley, Staffs
Catherine STANWAY Daur 12 Scholar Hanley, Staffs
Elizabeth STANWAY Daur 10 Scholar Hanley, Staffs
Thirza ASH Daur, Widow 38 Overlooker Painters on Earthenware Hanley, Staffs
Thomas ASH Grandson 15 Potter

We now return to Henry BENTLEY & his wife Thirza BENTLEY formerly ASH formerly STANWAY.

They had a daughter called Thirza born 07/08/1862 at Harts Hill, Stoke upon Trent; father Henry BENTLEY, Potter Journeyman; mother Thirza BENTLEY formerly STANWAY; registered by father, living at Harts Hill, Stoke upon Trent on 15/09/1862.

In 1871 Henry & Thirza were living in Hartshill, Penkhull:-

Hartshill, Penkhull
Henry BENTLEY Head 49 Potters Foreman Stoke on Trent, Staffordshire
Thirza BENTLEY Wife 49 Potters Paintress Stoke on Trent, Staffordshire
Eliza BENTLEY Daur 21 Potters Paintress Stoke on Trent, Staffordshire
Jane BENTLEY Daur 20 Potters Burnisher Stoke on Trent, Staffordshire
Hannah BENTLEY Daur 19 Potters ? Stoke on Trent, Staffordshire
Mary Ann BENTLEY Daur 10 Scholar Stoke on Trent, Staffordshire
Thirza BENTLEY Daur 8 Scholar Stoke on Trent, Staffordshire

In 1881 Henry & Thirza were living at Mintons Cottages, Hartshill, Penkhull. His son, Henry Jr. & his daughter Jane LONGMORE were also living just a few houses away:-

Mintons Cottages, Hartshill, Penkhull
Henry BENTLEY Head 59 Potters Wage Clerk Etruria, Staffs
Thirza BENTLEY Wife 58 Hanley, Staffs
Eliza BENTLEY Daur 32 Potters Burnisher Hanley, Staffs
Mary Ann BENTLEY Daur 21 Potters Paintress Stoke on Trent, Staffs
Thirza BENTLEY Daur 19 Potters Paintress Stoke on Trent, Staffs

In 1891 Henry & Thirza were living in Hartshill, Penkhull just 3 houses away from Henry’s daughter Jane, her Husband Thomas LONGMORE & their children:-

35 Hartshill, Penkhull, Stoke upon Trent
Henry BENTLEY Head 69 Writing Clerk Etruria, Staffs
Thirza BENTLEY Wife 69 Potters Paintress Hanley, Staffs
Thirza BENTLEY Daur 30 Stoke on Trent, Staffs

Thirza died in 1893, aged 70:-

Died 12/01/1893, at 35 Hartshill, Stoke upon Trent, age 70, wife of Henry BENTLEY, Potters Wage Clerk, cause of death: Pulmonary Congestion, registered by Henry BENTLEY widower of deceased present at the death, resident at 35 Hartshill, Stoke upon Trent, registered 14/01/1894.

Henry died in 1900 aged 78:-

Died 01/05/1900, at 35 Hartshill, Stoke upon Trent, age 78, Potters Foreman, cause of death: Bronchitis, registered by Henry BENTLEY, son, in attendance, resident at 99 Richmond Street, Stoke upon Trent, registered 01/05/1900.

In 1901 Henry & Thirza’s daughter Thirza was living at the same address in Hartshill, Penkhull as she was living with her parents in 1891. It looks like she had taken in lodgers although the other 2 occupants are recorded as ‘Head’:-

35 Hartshill, Penkhull, Stoke upon Trent
Thirza BENTLEY Head 34 Stoke on Trent, Staffs
Horace J.Y. MAYRICK? Head 22 Engineers Draughtsman Finsbury Park, London
Arthur H. HEWITT Head 22 Engineers Draughtsman Dulwich, London

In 1911 Thirza was living at 333 Hartshill Road:-

333 Hartshill Road, Stoke upon Trent
Thirza BENTLEY Head, Single 46 Home Hartshill, Stoke on Trent
Frederick MACHEN? Boarder, Widower 47 Earthenware Manufacturer Hanley, Staffordshire

Thirza died in 1950, aged 88 & it appears that she never married:-

Died 09/07/1950, at 578 Newcastle Road, Stoke on Trent, age 88, of 262 Princes Road, Stoke on Trent, spinster of no occupation, daughter of Henry BENTLEY, Pottery Manager (deceased), cause of death: Senility, registered by B. R. CARTER, occupier, 578 Newcastle Road, Stoke on Trent, registered 12/07/1950.

Many thanks to Lynne for pointing me in the right direction when I needed it most.