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Hello everyone

I hope there is information out there somewhere on this.

I have a number of photos of what seem to be a music hall act called Witty and Wyse who may have been dancers. One of them says they are Harry Witty and Connie Wyse. My great grandmother who was born in about 1884 in South Shields and was probably called Ellen Ramsey. was reputed to have been "on the stage" at some point possibly with a sister.

The pictures are on Facebook if anyone wants to see them under "Old Photographs of Sunderland"

Can anyone help ?

Thanks very much

Jean

Try Google it may come up with something.

Just a note....... looked at the photos and Witty is spelt WHITTY.

Hi People

Google is sick of me looking for them! and thanks for pointing out the mistake I concentrate on the odd spelling of Wyse and missed that !

Hi Jean,

what else can you tell us about Ellen Ramsey..... with any luck we maybe able to pick something up if we know more about her and trace Whitty and Wyse through her???


Dee x

Do you know who she married?

???


There is a tree on Ancestry that gives this information for Ellen Ramsey.......


1911 census - household transcription
Person: FRENCH, Norman
Address: 30 William St Newcastle-Upon-Tyne


FRENCH, Ellen Head Spencer F 27 1884 Dressmaker South Shield
FRENCH, Jemmie Son M 12 1899 Newcastel VIEW
FRENCH, Norman Son M 0 (6 MONTHS) 1911 Newcastel
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
30622 Reference:
RG14PN30622 RG78PN1754 RD558 SD4 ED7 SN29

Registration District:
Newcastle upon Tyne Sub District:
St Nicholas Enumeration District:
7 Parish:
Westgate

Address:
30 William St Newcastle-Upon-Tyne County:
Northumberland


Spencer reads Shincer............Possibly Spinster??

Jemmie reads more like Jimmie.

Births Dec 1910 (>99%)
FRENCH Norman L Sunderland 10a 673

Deaths Jun 1911 (>99%)
French Norman L 0 Sunderland 10a 374

She hadn't married anyone by 1911 when she was listed as aged 27.

She called herself French and claimed, on my Grandfather's birth certificate, to be married to a James French , merchant seaman. But at 27 in 1911 she was born in 1884 making her, at best , fifteen when she gave birth to him so she couldn't be married. I can't find her or my grandfather in 1901 and other than knowing she lived at 6 Northcote Avenue in Sunderland for a number of years I have no other information on her. That was my grandfather's address on his army records and she is listed as next of kin. He also got married from there in 1924.
There is a story in the family that we are related to a Nan Liscombe who was champion clog dancer of all England and taught steps to Fred Astaire and Gene Kelly. In the 1911 census Ellen has a second child she called Norman Liscombe French but I can find no link to the Liscombes in Sunderland, though they were dancers and performers.

Ah, i see the tree i was viewing on Ancestry is yours.

Here you go. You need to treat yourself to a subscription to The Stage - they have a set of different subs available (eg 24 hours for £5.00). There are five pages of "whitty and wyse" - you need the quote marks in the search engine. This is just a sample - the fifth one down is very interesting (you can find more details about him in the London Gazette I expect):

The Stage: Thursday Aug 15, 1918: Wanted Engagements (Pantomime Artists): WANTED Known, Vacant, Oct. 7 WHITTY and WYSE (Harry and Connie). Revue, also Panto (Dame and Boy). Plenty of real Comedy bi.. , gags etc. Thanks for previous offers. Two thoroughly experienced Panto Artists. All coms. ..Onstie Grounds Pavilion, Aberystwyth. [I have put dots for missing letters – not sure of the name of the place in Aberystwyth]

The Stage: Thursday April 10, 1919: Bert Grapho’s Mascot “Revue” What a Lad (A Pantomime Musical Comedy). 30 artists including Whitty and Wyse. [Think this is the Eden Theatre, Bishopauckland]

The Stage: Thursday May 8th 1924: Wanted Revue or Var. by WHITTY and WYSE. Quick-change Com. Act. Play parts. Vac Mon. - Em. Ushaw Moor. Co. Durham.

Thursday September 9 1915: WHITTY and WYSE (Lady and Gent). All-Comedy. Always make good. Vacant Sept 27 on. Add., Ellison’s Entertainers, ABERYSTWYTH (15th week).

The Stage : Thursday June 15 1916: Actors and the War: Private A H Marsh, South Shields, who has been awarded the Military Cross, is well-known on the Tyneside as a variety artist, under the name of Alf. Ormond. He is a brother to Harry Whitby (of Whitty and Wyse), now appearing at Aberystwyth, and was decorated for assisting the wounded under heavy fire.”

Thursday November 4 1915: WANTED Monday, also 22nd, by Whitty and Wyse the Comedy Couple with a Comedy Act. – Wire, 48 Elton Street West, Wallsend-on-Tyne.

Jill

Oh well done Jill!!

Thanks PH - I must admit to being just a bit chuffed at the results I found ... LOL

Jill

Oh My goodness! This is amazing !Thanks you so much!! This has been a mystery in my Mum's family for an awfully long time. My mum lost her sight when I was 21 and passed away when I was 25 in 1979. Before she went blind we sat down with her family photos and I wrote the names on the back of them. The only ones she didn't know were the Whitty and Wyse ones. She only knew they were something to do with her father James French but wasn't sure as his background was not spoken of much in the family .

Fantastic Jill!!

Bet you jumped up and down when you found that and I bet Jean is now.... tee hee..

Dee xx

You can't find any Clog Dancers whilst your at it Jill, can you??? :-D

I did look for clog dancers but nothing came up ... sorry.

But, would definitely be worth a £5 outlay for 24 hours of searching.

Jill

I will absolutely do that,

You would not believe how pleased I am with this.
My Mum was really interested in her family history and I remember at the time wondering why on earth she was bothered that there were a few photos she couldn't put names to She would have been so pleased to know who they were.

Thanks again

Jean

No worries Jean. Makes a real change to get such a positive result ... !

Jill

An update on the above .

I invested my fiver in The Stage Archive and not only found lots of info on the elusive Duo but found a death notice for Connie Wyse giving her real name which was Selina French and her father was a James French who was a seaman ! Plus one of the other family stories was that my Grandfather 's mother was on the stage at one time with her sister and I found a reference to Miss Ellen Ramsey and a Miss Ivy Ramsey !! No loose ends tied up yet but I am closer than I have ever been

So thanks again !

Jean