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One of my anscestors Alice Munns b:abt 1842, Orwell Cambridgeshire married Moses Gill in 1862 and had 3 children John b:1864, Neal b:1866, Mary b:1867 and Lydia b:1869.

Moses b:abt 1840 died in Dec 1867 which cant be right because of Lydia's birth so one of these dates are wrong.

After Moses's death Alice married Joseph Baker my great great grandfather and in the 1871 census I can see that they are living in Basingbourne, Cambridgeshire and 4 of Alice's children from her previous marriage were living with them. Looking at the 1881 census 3 of them are still living with them in Boxworth, Cambridgeshire but the surname has changed to Baker. Neal's name is now Cornenilious and Lydia is now Louisa. All have exactly the same birth year as in previous census records.

I just wondered how they would have gone about getting the surname changed back in those days or if they just desided themselves. Took a while to find Alice's maiden name !!

Firstly anybody can call themselves by any name they chose without any formality providing that the name change is not for fraudulent purposes.

Secondly it is/was very common for children whose natural father has died to assume/use the surname of their mothers new husband.

Thirdly if Moses did die in Dec 1867 then obviously he could not be the biological father of a child born in 1869. It would not however be the first case where the mothers long deceased husband was indicated as the father of the child on the birth certificate.

Brilliant, thanks for clarification!!

Could Cornelnilious and Louisa be the 2nd husband's children from a first marriage?

yes they are!! Exactly the same year of birth and place of birth. Looks like they change the surname from Gill to Baker after marriage.

Are you able to find Joseph in the 1861 census I cant find the correct one and dont think the one born abt 1838 is the one as I had been informed Joseph's mother was Sarah. Could be wrong though

Have you got Lydia's birth cert ?

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Births Sep 1867
Gill Lydia - Caxton 3b 445

She may not have been Moses' daughter.

Her surname would still be registered as Gill if that was her widoweded mother's name

No I havent looked at the children yet. Trying to look up Joshua in all census records first. Cant find him as yet in 1861 but can in all the others, Will get there though

Is anyone able to look at the 1911 census for me?

I am looking for Alice Baker born 1841 Orwell, Cambridgeshire. If you could tell me who was in the household and any other information that would be great

BAKER, Joshua Head Married M 76 1835 Pensioner Old Age Formerly Labourer On Farm Cambridgeshire Longstone VIEW
BAKER, Alice Wife Married
32 years F 70 1841 Pensioner Old Age Cambridgeshire Orwell VIEW

Address:
Knapwell Cambridge County:
Cambridgeshire


Married 32 years 10 children born 5 living

Thank you Astra!!

Going off the years married by 1911 ... this could be their marriage but she's down as Ann not Alice.


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Marriages Dec 1879
Baker Joshua - Caxton 3b 979
Young Ann - Caxton 3b 979

EDIT - NO, WRONG ONE.
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THIS IS BETTER

Marriages Jun 1873 ( so married 38 yrs by 1911 not 32 )
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Baker Joshua Caxton 3b 849
GILL Alice Caxton 3b 849




"ORWELL, a parish in the hundred of Wetherley, county Cambridge, 7 miles north of Royston, and 3 north of Shepreth,

So he wasn't Joseph then ???



Just for reference ...
Vairations on birthplaces.

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Household: 1881

Joshua BAKER Head M Male 43 Bourn, Cambridge, England Publican
Alice BAKER Wife M Female 41 Long Stow, Cambridge, England
Frank BAKER Son Male 12 Luton, Bedford, England General Lab.
Annie M. BAKER Daur Female 6 Bourn, Cambridge, England Scholar
Ethel BAKER Daur Female 1 Bourn, Cambridge, England
William Thomas GRAVES Boarder M Male 37 Leamington, Warwick, England Station-Master


Dwelling Old North Rd. "Stow Fox"
Census Place Bourn, Cambridge, England

JOSHUA BAKER

Birth:
Christening: 12 NOV 1837 Bourn, Cambridge, England

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Parents:
Father: JOSHUA BAKER
Mother: ANN

Births Dec 1840 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MUNNS Alice - Caxton 14 29

Alice Munns
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Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 31 JAN 1841 Orwell, Cambridge, England

Parents:
Father: Jonathan Munns
Mother: Charlotte

Marriages:
Spouse: Moses Gill
Marriage: 15 OCT 1862 Orwell, Cambridge, England




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Jonathan MUNNS
Event(s)
Christening: 11 Apr 1813
ORWELL,CAMBRIDGE,England

Burial: 28 Aug 1841
ORWELL,CAMBRIDGE,England


Parents
Father: Jonathan MUNNS
Mother: Alice MUNNS

Marriage(s)
Spouse: Charlotte MUNNS
Marriage: 23 Sep 1840
ORWELL,CAMBRIDGE,England


Check Ann's birth certificate for mother Charlotte's maiden name

I don't think the 1881 posted above is correct, I think this is it:

BAKER, Joshua Head Married M 40 1841 Ag Lab Longstow Cambridgeshire
BAKER, Alice Wife Married F 39 1842 Ag Lab Wife Orwell Cambridgeshire
BAKER, John Son Single M 17 1864 Ag Lab Orwell Cambridgeshire
BAKER, Cornilous Son Single M 16 1865 Ag Lab Orwell Cambridgeshire
BAKER, Louisa Daughter Single F 12 1869 Scholar Orwell Cambridgeshire
BAKER, Edward Son Single M 6 1875 Scholar Low Childerly Cambridgeshire
BAKER, Alice Daughter Single F 4 1877 Scholar Low Childerly Cambridgeshire
BAKER, George Son Single M 0 1881 Low Childerly Cambridgeshire
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Registration District: St Ives
Civil Parish: Boxworth (Cambs)

Address: Low Childerly, Boxworth (Cambs) County: Huntingdonshire

Marie, in order to find him in 1861 do you think this is the correct 1851:

BAKER, William Head Married M 45 1806 Ag Lab Long Stow Cambridgeshire
BAKER, Sarah Wife Married F 45 1806 Little Gransden Cambridgeshire
>>BAKER, Joshua Son Unmarried M 15 1836 Ag Lab Long Stow Cambridgeshire
BAKER, Henry Son Unmarried M 12 1839 Ag Lab Long Stow Cambridgeshire
BAKER, Tillis Daughter Unmarried F 9 1842 Long Stow Cambridgeshire
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Registration District: Caxton
Civil Parish: Long Stow

Address: High Street, Long Stow County: Cambridgeshire

I think this is Joshua in 1861:

IVETT, Robert Head Married M 56 1805 Farmer Of 6 Acres Great Eversden Cambridgeshire
IVETT, Lydia Daughter Unmarried F 24 1837 Dressmaker Great Eversden Cambridgeshire
IVETT, Daniel Son M 12 1849 Great Eversden Cambridgeshire
IVETT, James Son M 11 1850 Great Eversden Cambridgeshire
SABOY, Abraham Lodger Unmarried M 20 1841 Farm Labourer Croydon Cambridgeshire
>>BAKEN, Joshua Lodger Unmarried M 26 1835 Farm Labourer Long Storn Cambridgeshire
PEARSON, William Lodger Unmarried M 27 1834 Farm Labourer Hatley Cambridgeshire
KINGSTON, William Lodger Unmarried M 28 1833 Farm Labourer Hatley Cambridgeshire
KNIGHTON, Edward Lodger Unmarried M 17 1844 Farm Labourer Hatley Cambridgeshire
WHITTEY, John Lodger Unmarried M 19 1842 Farm Labourer Hatley Cambridgeshire
WHITTEY, Danaell Lodger Unmarried M 14 1847 Farm Labourer Hatley Cambridgeshire
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Registration District: Caxton
Civil Parish: Great Eversden

Address: Great Eversden County: Cambridgeshire

3 or 4 Public Family Trees on ancestry show Neal Gill as


Cornelius Neal Gill
Birth Dec 1865 in Orwell, Cambridgeshire, England

Parents: Moses Gill and Alice Munns

although the record they show for him ( England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906) shows just Neel Gill, just like familysearch.org.


One of the same trees also shows that he had 4 siblings:-

Jonathan Gill
1864 – 1893
Mary Gill
1867 –
Lydia Gill
1867 – 1868
Lydia II Gill
1869 –



sylvia

This is the 1871 you mentioned

1871 census - household transcription
Person: BAKER, Alice
Address: South End, Bassingbourn



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BAKER, Joshua Head M 30 1841 Cambridgeshire VIEW
BAKER, Alice Wife F 29 1842 Cambridgeshire VIEW
GILL, John Son-In-Law M 7 1864 Cambridgeshire VIEW
GILL, Neal Son-In-Law M 5 1866 Cambridgeshire VIEW
GILL, Mary Daughter-In-Law F 4 1867 Cambridgeshire VIEW
GILL, Lydia Daughter-In-Law F 2 1869 Cambridgeshire VIEW

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