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Does anyone know how I can get hold of these records, please?

My Great Great Grandfather was a Barrister and he married his own Ward of Court/Chancery in the 1890's.

She would have been made a Ward of Court/Chancery in c.1890/95.

I am trying to discover why this action was taken in the first place.

Thank you.

Have you tried Google

Thank you Mark, this link seems to be the one to follow.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/chancery-masters-reports-certificates.htm

Now all I have to do is untangle it all and try to find sks who is going to the NA!!

Does anyone else have some suggestions, please?

Explanations, in general, are on this website:


http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/glossary

Have you looked on the London Gazette website under Guardian's name?

London Gazette Home Page
11 Oct 2011 ... Visit the London Gazette for insolvency data, public notices or honours and awards (for government, business or individuals). For datafeeds or ...

www.london-gazette.co.uk/

I've searched for a couple of Chancery cases at TNA. They are by no means easy to research and often difficult to interpret.

have you tried to find the Ward on an earlier census, with her parents or family?

Then try ot see what happened to her parents?


I was under the impression ...... and I may be well wrong in this ....... that Wards of Court/Chancery were minors whose parents had died, but where there was some inheritance involved that had to be protected until the child came of age.


Nowadays, the term also covers children taken into care by the Social Services ...... but these departments did not exist back in the 1890s.




sylvia

Thank you all very much.

We know every detail about the Ward and also her Guardian as individuals, and all descendants and census entries tally.

The mystery surrounds why exactly she was made a Ward of Court and this is what we would really like to solve.

We can see from Census entries that in 1891 she is living with her wealthy maternal grandparents, mother is living alone in London with a servant and husband is nowhere to be seen. And he will be the subject of another thread in due course, I fear . . .

The present day family have always thought that there was a whiff of inheritance and that is why she was made a Ward of Court.

I will have a look at the London Gazette, thank you for that tip.

Am in the midst of a crazy work itinerary at the moment, so please forgive if I disappear for a very short while.

Many thanks again.

Have had a look at the London Gazette.

No luck, I'm afraid, under the name of my Great Great Grandfather who was a Barrister and also the Guardian of said Ward of Chancery.

Although I did find a very interesting entry about him in connection with the Will of someone else - you never know what you're going to find.

I did also do a search under her name, but again to no avail. She would have been quite young and obviously a minor at the time, so perhaps her name would not be released?

It looks like the NA, but they are really inaccessible for me. Can anyone think of anywhere else I could search via the internet for the time being please?

You say you have found her in 1881?

How old was she then?

Have you found her in the Census in 1891? Who was she living with then?

Have you discovered what happened to her mother? Was she dead by the early 1890s? Or her grandparents?

What about her father ...... or his parents, and other family members?


I think someone would not be made a Ward of Court unless there really was some sort of problem ........ and I THINK that was usually no living relations.


Actually, at various times during history .................... being the Guardian of a Ward of Court could be very lucrative. From selling the Ward's inheritance, to marrying the Ward to someone in return for some form of recompense, to marrying the Ward themselves, thus gaining control of the inheritance.



sylvia

In 1881, she was aged 17 months living with her parents and two servants.

In 1891, she was aged 11 and living with her grandparents in the country, their 20 year old son and two servants. In the same census, her mother is living with a servant in London. Her father, a Surveyor, is nowhere to be found after the 1881 census . . .

In 1901, she is living with her husband [my Great Great Grandfather, 50 years her senior, wealthy in his own right, first wife deceased] and her mother in London. My GGF and she married in 1898.

They moved to Switzerland and he died there in 1904. She went on to remarry a widower and we know all the bits of the puzzle because of living relatives who all kept in close touch with us.

There was no question of 'hanky panky' as far as wealth was concerned, because my GGF had no need. Her father's parents were also well established. There is a family story that she was rather 'high spirited', but that shouldn't necessitate being made a Ward of Court.

I cannot find her mother after 1901, either.

I hope that this has helped?

Her mother, as a married lady, could not have owned property in her own right as this is prior to the Married Womens Property Act 1927. Perhaps her daughter being a Ward of Court is connected with this. Was your Great Great Grandfather a distant relative to the family?

You are all SO knowledgeable!

No, my GGF was not connected with the family. He was a Barrister and would have been appointed as her Ward in Chancery presumably as the family solicitor or by referral??

Her mother's parents were obviously very supportive, since they took on the little daughter [see above in the thread]. All very mysterious.

In general terms barristers are instructed by solicitors and do not have direct contact with a client other than through the instructing solicitor. (Since 2004 there have been some exceptions). Would have to look if this was the case over 100 years ago.
Transcripts of Court Cases are very expensive to obtain and in some cases records are not kept for more than six years.

Other than National archives perhaps this website:

Law Reports
Official transcripts of cases can be found on a number of databases. ... A Guide to Sources to obtaining transcripts of the proceedings of courts and tribunals in England and Wales. ... 2766 (Ch) refers to case number 2766 of 2003 from the Chancery Division of the .... Appeal Cases (Second Series), 1875-1890, Westlaw UK ...
www.cardiff.ac.uk/insrv/bysubject/law/reports.html

and this link explains the conduct of barristers and legal terms:

http://www.findabarrister.co.uk/more_info.asp?current_id=60

Thank you very much again for your wealth of knowledge. I am very impressed.

This looks like I'm going to need the assistance of someone who may have a little bit of spare time while they are visiting the NA on their own account, to see if this one can be started off. It looks like a very complicated issue.

I have been to the NA only once, devoted a whole day and much rail fare money to the effort. I met my cousin there and we both left way more frustrated than when we had arrived; nobody was available to help us find our way around, we were just told to look in the 'blue section' which we never found [!], and we both missed our trains home . . .

I would be inclined to look into the father's background before another trip to the NA. Obviously wealth on the maternal side of the family but was this the case for the paternal side? If parents were living "separate lives" and split of wealth was disproportionate this could be reason for the child being made a Ward of Court. Divorce was difficult and not socially accepted.
Did maternal side of family own property abroad? Mother may have moved to (say) Europe until matters were settled.
If you prefer to pm me mother and father's details I will have a look and see if I can find any information for you.

That's a good idea, Perchino


I was wondering about the father

He's not with his wife in 1891 ..... so where was he? Had he left the family, OR was he away on business? If os, can we find him?

When did he died? Where did he die?

Where are his parents? Did they have any contact with their granddaughter after 1891?

There's all kinds of questions.



Another one that crosses my mind is that this young woman seemingly had a habit of marrying much older men. Why?

Was it the security, was it the money? If the money, why?

Why did she and her first husband move to Switzerland?

Who were the witnesses on their marriage certificate?



All of these could provide clues.



sylvia

More thoughts have crossed my mind. Wonder if the maternal family used the same firm of solicitors through a few generations. If so. copies of their old files could be in the County Archives.
Nicola, have you obtained copies of any of the family's Wills?

Have just peeked at all your activity and I am so impressed and grateful.

I am tied up with visitors for a couple of days and will return to all your questions after that.

Please don't think that I am ignoring you until then.

Thank you.
:-)

Further research under another completely separate thread has revealed that her mother filed for divorce on the grounds of husband's repeated adultery. I now have the transcript of the divorce case; very comprehensive but in the end wife withdrew her divorce action.

Yes, I have copies of all the family's Wills but they reveal no more than we already know.

We also have a beautifully handwritten letter from my GGF to his son in which he writes that he has already been married to said Ward of Court for two years but "hadn't wanted to bother him with this news"!! He also writes that he had already told his two daughters who were already very fond of their new step mother. He also writes that he was hauled before the Judge for marrying his Ward of Court after "some kind soul" spilled the beans but that his dear little wife spoke up so pluckily in Court that the Judge took the case no further.

What a story!

But we're no nearer knowing WHY she was made a Ward of Court in the first place. She had a perfectly good mother; admittedly, her parents' marriage was not in good shape.

Distance doesn't allow me to visit the NA to see if I can get any further with this and I simply wouldn't know where to start. So I'm now hoping that some of you may be reading this and can help, please. :-) :-)

If the NA means National archives you can find them online and do searches too on the site