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Hi Malcolm, I reckon they've just assumed that the town where he had lived earlier was where he was born, perhaps also because that's where the Leechmere sailed out of.

hi all i have noticed that on the death record lost at sea james gunn birth is regestered as gravesend and the census 1881 is middlesbrough is that a misstake

- a possible to throw into the mix, since there seems no trace of Sam* Gun* before 1881...

James is shown as age 10 on the 1881 census

- there is the entry for 1871:

Name: Annie Foster
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Samuel Foster
Gender: Female
Where born: Guisbrough, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Guisborough
Ecclesiastical parish: Cleveland
Town: Guisborough
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Guisborough
Sub-registration district: Kirkleatham
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Household schedule number: 102
Piece: 4857
Folio: 41
Page Number: 21
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel Foster 29
Annie Foster 25
James Foster 1 Week

Samuel is a carpenter; and one way this might fit to your family would be if Samuel and Annie are not married and have supplied Annie's surname.

There is an Annie Foster in Guisboro* on the earlier census returns.

The birth certificate for this James would probably be:

Name: James Foster
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1871
Registration district: Guisborough
Inferred County: Yorkshire North Riding
Volume: 9d
Page: 491

If Samuel Foster or James Foster born in G*s*b*r* can be found on later census/deaths, if would help to eliminate this suggestion as a possibility for your ancestor.

hi all how can i get james gunn birth certificate born in guisborough in 1873 i have checked on line and there is no match could he be registererd in another county? can any one help as i need the person who registererd the birth hopefully the father cheers

hi MarieCeleste looks like emma may have taken helenor with her to where ever may have stayed in middlesbrough when samuel went down south correct me if i am wrong that means harriet is no relation to me and emma is my actural g.g.grandmothe

Hello Malcom - the 1891 that I posted further up is, I'm fairly sure, the same family as Rootgatherer posted the 1881 for. The two lads birthplace is the same (it's quite likely that if an enumerator down south hadn't heard of Guisborough that they'd use the nearest bigger town (Middlesbrough) - bit like people from Blaydon saying they're from Gateshead when out of their home area).

On the 1891 Samuel is with Harriet - note the two stepchildren. That implies they hadn't been together that long. Don't know what happened to Emma.

Don't get hung up on spellings and exact ages. Very many people in those days were illiterate and wouldn't know if their names were being spelled correctly. They wouldn't be able to read their birth certificates (that's if their births had been registered - before 1874 there wasn't the onus on parents to do so.). That's why we so often see such a variation in ages on census and other records. I honestly don't think exact ages were important to so many people back then. Many of the reasons why we need to confirm our ages these days just didn't exist for our ancestors.

hi jan checked the census records to me it is deffenatly two n`s it is the way they have wrote it, it has been interperated wrong by the researcher, i cannot find them on the 1891 census for some reason

Trust me Malcolm - one n or two is irrelevant!
Jan

you have thrown the cat among the pigeons now the only thing is the spelling one n in gunn ? i wonder if i can find samuel in the 1891 census as he is deffinately dead before 1896 and will not be on the 1901 census

1881

Name: Samuel Gun
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Emma Gun
Gender: Male
Where born: Middlesborough, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Caterham
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street Address: 4 Woodville Terr
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Carpenter

Registration district: Godstone
Sub-registration district: Godstone
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 803
Folio: 81
Page Number: 60
Household Members: Name Age
Samuel Gun 36
Emma Gun 28
Samuel Gun 2
James Gun 10
Helenor Gun 6 months
William Compton 43
Samuel Hilton 40
John Hunter 62
Alfred Wilkins 40
Thomas Dickens 30
John Wellbridge 30
Thomas Jeffrey 30

hi MarieCeleste i went down that line with samuel from guisbough thinking the name was miss spelt so i went back to s/s to look at the original and definatly says simon on the marrige cert but i think you could be right with your records the only thing which put me off james was 20in 1896 which is stated on the marriage cert which would make his d.o.b.1876james from guisbough was born in 1873 the dates could be wrong so i `m going to use what you have given me and thanks you have found a bit more info,i could not find cheers i am still hoping to find my scottish ancesters

I think it might be possible that the father's name may have been written wrongly (perhaps misheard?) on the marriage certificate and they've put Simon instead of Samuel.

This possible death for the father fits time-wise:

Deaths Jun 1892
Gunn Samuel 47 Gravesend 2a 282

Malcolm, if you could have another look at that marriage certificate and see if the father's name is clearly written ....

If that tree on ancestry IS yours then it mentions the 1891 census in Kent.

In 1901 the Harriet from the 1891 is a widow - could James father be Samuel and not Simon?


GUNN, Harriet Head Widow F 61 1840 Laundress Chatham Kent
HUNEYBELL, Alfred Son Single M 23 1878 Waterman Gravesend Kent

Registration District: Gravesend
Civil Parish: Milton

Address: 23, Augustine Road, Milton County: Kent

I have a feeling about that one MarieCeleste. If you look at the 1891 census for that family, while he is (I think) a labourer, a lot of the men living nearby have seafaring jobs - tug captain, marine sergeant, marine engineer etc etc.

EDIT didn't see your last posting - that confirms it, nice bit of research!

Jan

????

Registration event: death

Name: GUNN, James
Date of death: 24 March 1898
Age: 24
Place of death: North Sea
Place of birth: Gravesend
Belonging to service:
Ship's name: Leechmere
Series: BT334 - Registers and Indexes of Births, Marriages and Deaths of Passengers and Seamen at Sea
Box: 0019
Page: 9

Last address was 4 Bede Street, Tyne Dock, South Shields. He was a fireman. Note says "presumed drowned, vessel missing".

I think this is the right chap.

Closest 1891 I can find, but father is Samuel:

GUNN, Samuel Head Married M 46 1845 Carpenter Guisbrough Yorkshire
GUNN, Harriet Wife Married F 51 1840 Chatham Kent
GUNN, James Son Single M 18 1873 Guisbrough Yorkshire
GUNN, Samuel Son Single M 16 1875 Guisbrough Yorkshire
GILL, Edith Huney Stepdaughter Single F 17 1874 Poplar London
GILL, Alfred Stepson Single M 13 1878 Gravesend Kent

Registration District: Gravesend
Civil Parish: Milton
Municipal Borough: Gravesend

Address: 23, Augustine Road, Milton, Gravesend County: Kent

(On the original image it looks like the two stepchildren's surnames are Huneygill)

For reference -

Marriages Dec 1896 (>99%)
BURDON Christina Raymond S. Shields 10a 1174
Gunn James S. Shields 10a 1174

Births Dec 1897 (>99%)
Gunn James S. Shields 10a 830

Marriages Mar 1900 (>99%)
Gunn Christina Raymond S. Shields 10a 934
WESTHALL Jeremiah S. Shields 10a 934

According to a tree on Ancestry James Gunn senior was born 1875 and was a mariner at the time of his marriage in 1896 and was living at 57 Bede Street, South Shields.

(I think the tree is Malcolm's).

Here is Christina 1911. Have you found her 1891?

1911 England Census

Name: Christina Raymond Westhall
Age in 1911: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Tyne Dock, Durham, England
Civil parish: South Shields
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street Address: 179 Adelaide St So Shields
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Wood
Registration district: South Shields
Registration District Number: 556
Sub-registration district: South Shields
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Piece: 30285
Household Members:
Name Age
Jeremiah Westhall 41
Christina Raymond Westhall 29
James Junn 13
Lionel Cristenson 5

I think the marriage must be later than 1886 as Christina was only born in 1880



Name: Christina Raymond Burdon
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1896
Registration district: South Shields
Inferred County: Durham
Volume Number: 10a
Page Number: 1174


Possible groom of James Gunn