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Hi Susan,

I totally understand that you aren't interested in Sidney but if and when, it's all yours.

I am finding the family interesting though and I've hopefully found a new source of some information, including about Sidney. With luck, I will be able to get hold of it in the next week or so.

In my to-do list, I intend to see what I can find out about him via whichever place in Birmingham has the archives for the Art School.

I suspect that you are correct in your opinion of him. I'd be grateful for what you pick up about him even though I know it will only be anecdotal. It all helps to create the picture (no pun intended).

I do wonder how many/if any children he fathered. Probably an unanswerable question but suggestions of character being what they are......

Will keep in touch.

xJ

I'm not researching much of Sidney's line, He had no legitimate children and wasn't interested enough in my mothers welfare to look after her after other than off loading her on to her adopted family. From the little I have learned he seemed to be a selfish selfseeker and must have little or no respect for the women in his life.

I am more interested in my Grandmother. I won't reveal the names until I have some more information, at the moment I am in touch with an Anglo/German society to see if I can get any links from that quarter. I know the name of the region my Gt Grandfather came from in Germany and I am following the line of the only surviving member of my Grandmother's family. (her sister) who married an English man with an unusual surname. More later if there is anything.

You are right. Don't know yet if it will prove to be interesting or frustrating as heck.

I spotted this as a very good example. As far as I know William Pearson does not belong to me. Of course this might change. My William is the December 1837 marriage.

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Marriages Sep 1838 (>99%)
METEYARD William Pearson St Jas.Westr 1 99


Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1837 (>99%)
Meatyard William St. James Westr. 1 102

On Googling Sidney, I found mention of an auction of a work or works and I e-mailed the Gallery to ask if they had any bits of info about him. I had a lovely message back. The sale had been pre-digital for them so nothing saved and no catalogue available. But in their own words, they had 'cobbled' together what they could find out about him but not much available anywhere.

I have promised to share what I find in the hope that it might be of interest and even of some use someday. I have told them about the link to Flatford. What I need to put on my list of things to do is investigate whether Richard Barrel's mother who was born in the area, had a closer connection to the Constable family. That far back, I might find out or I might not but I shall have had fun looking. :-D :-D :-D

xxJ

Jill


you are very welcome.

It was fun

I do think there might be two families ................ Meatyards and Meteyards.

Both names were appearing at the same time on the early Parish records ..... and in both London and Devon




s
xx

I am laughing with delight here just looking at how much you have found for me. I am very grateful. I'd spotted the possibility of the Baker marriage but not done anything to work out if it was relevant.

You have given me lots to work through.

Oh yes to Googling Oswald. Already done that - but thanks for the suggestion. I found his name on Google quite a few times, leading me to not only the Barrel's (London Gazette mention) but to more mention of Sidney and his works. Boredom is not something I am getting from this family. The beauty of it all is being so close to Birmingham I am hoping to go and look at the various pieces by Sidney.

In the mid 70s there was a BBC televison series called Connections hosted by James Burke. It caught my imagination even then and might be the catalyst for always wanting to know more with the appreciation and understanding that nothing, whether invention or incident, ever stands alone and the most simple, bizarre or complicated things with no apparent connection whatsoever are somehow intertwined. Perhaps it was a way of coping with the life I had.

I am fascinated by how many connections exist with this family. It may be mostly as a result of society at the time and that in itself is worthy of the story. This family and their connections are in art and glass in Birmingham and Stoubridge; both places I know well.

I confess to being fascinated by how people gravitate towards, and relate to each other and often how life seems to be what I call 'Circular'. It's all about those Connections again. I am and have always been a crafter and unknowingly I married into a family which has a rich heritage in the jewellery trade and is connected (albeit by marriage only) to the most amazing connections to glass, painting, enamelling at incredible levels. Our daughter who is Kate's first cousin three times removed loves to design stuff and also and to make jewellery. Kate who married Sidney included jewellery in her talents. Her family were part of the Birmingham Jewellery Quarter and at the turn of the 1800s they were silversmiths.

As I found out last week, the Barrel's lived 1871 at Flatford Mill: most famous for its John Constable paintings.

It's all about James Burke and his 'Connections' again. Start with a question. How does a teenage girl born in the 1990s connect to English Romantic painter born in 1776?

I am hoping also to maybe establish a connection or no connection between the London Meatyards and the Dorset ones. There are some Meatyards mentioned as being in Lychett Minster. I have visited there quite a few times since we began going to Swanage on holiday. I have felt drawn to walk around the churchyard but never made the time.

Thank you again so much. You are a star.

xxJ

In case you haven't done it .................. google Oswald.

There's all kinds of interesting "stuff"!

William and Maria Shelton married before registration began.

I cannot find their marriage on ancestry, to see what he said about his status.

This is from familysearch.org/ ............


"England, Marriages, 1538–1973 ," Maria Shelton, 1837

groom's name: William Meatgard
groom's birth date:
groom's birthplace:
groom's age:
bride's name: Maria Shelton
bride's birth date:
bride's birthplace:
bride's age:
marriage date: 25 Nov 1837
marriage place: Saint James,Westminster,London,England
groom's father's name: Robert Meatgard
groom's mother's name:
bride's father's name: William Shelton
bride's mother's name:
groom's race:
groom's marital status:
groom's previous wife's name:
bride's race:
bride's marital status:
bride's previous husband's name:
indexing project (batch) number: M14751-7
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 1042320
reference number:
Citing this Record

"England, Marriages, 1538–1973 ," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NKNF-9XD : accessed 16 Oct 2012), William Meatgard and Maria Shelton, 25 Nov 1837; citing reference , FHL microfilm 1042320.



I think that gives you the evidence that William's father was called Robert ............. but no evidence for his mother!!




sylvia

Do you have this one???


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Oswald George Meatyard

Name: Oswald George Meatyard
Age: Full Age
Spouse Name: Emma Maria Rutland
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 15 Sep 1864
Parish: Chelsea St Simon Zelotes
Borough: Kensington and Chelsea
Father Name: William Meatyard
Spouse Father Name: William Rutland
Register Type: Parish Register

from image:-

Oswald
Full Age
Bachelor
Occupation:- Mercantile Clerk
Address:- 12 Milner St. Chelsea
Father occupation:- Deceased, Mercantile Clerk ??????

Emma
Full Age
Spinster
no occupation shown
Address:- 3 Halsey St, Chelsea
Father occupation:- Deceased, Saddler

After Banns

Witnesses:- 4 of them, and I cannot decipher even one!!



London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Joseph Benjamin Meatyard

Name: Joseph Benjamin Meatyard
Age: Full Age
Spouse Name: Fanny Buels
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 3 Apr 1864
Parish: St Marylebone
Borough: Westminster
Father Name: William Meatyard
Spouse Father Name: Francis Buels
Register Type: Parish Register

from image:-

Joseph
Full Age
Bachelor
Occupation:- Clerk at a Glass Works
Address:- St Marylebone
Father occupation:- Upholsterer

Fanny
Full Age
Spinster
no occupation shown
Address:- as above
Father occupation:- formerly a Launderer

after Banns

Witnesses:- F Buels and M Buels



???????

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about George Meatyard

Name: George Meatyard
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1849
Age: 26
Spouse Name: Caroline Anne Paine
Spouse Age: 24
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 16 Feb 1875
Parish: Chelsea St Luke
Borough: Kensington and Chelsea
Father Name: William George Meatyard
Spouse Father Name: Edward Paine
Register Type: Parish Register

from image:-

George
Bachelor
Occupation:- Clerk
Address:- 156 Oakley Street
Father occupation:- Deceased, Clerk

Caroline
Spinster
no occupation shown
Address:- 73 Church Street
Father occupation:- Deceased, Farmer

after Banns

Witnesses:- (indecipherable) and Sarah A Burbank


I think William might have died when they were so young that neither Oswald nor George knew his occupation, and guessed at Clerk????

???????

probably Emma b. 1830 ......... she's on the 1851, with John Lilley, b. ca 1831. John is 66 in 1851


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Emma Meatyard

Name: Emma Meatyard
Spouse Name: John Lilley
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 20 May 1873
Parish: Hampstead St Stephen the Martyr
Borough: Camden
Father Name: William Meatyard
Spouse Father Name: George Lilley
Register Type: Parish Register


from image:-

Emma
Of Full Age
Spinster
no occupation shown
Address:- St John's Wood Terrace
Father occupation:- Upholsterer

John
Of Full Age
Bachelor
Upholsterer
Address:- St John's Wood Terrace
Father occupation:- Grocer

Married by License

Witnesses:- William Meatyard and James Edward Nightingale


?? the witness William Meatyard being her brother????

This is probably Thomas William ...................


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about William Meatyard

Name: William Meatyard
Age: Full Age
Spouse Name: Harriett Hoar
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 26 Mar 1846
Parish: St Marylebone
Borough: Westminster
Father Name: William Meatyard
Spouse Father Name: William Hoar
Register Type: Parish Register


from image:-

William
Of Full Age
Bachelor
Occupation:- Servant
Address:- Charles Street
Father occupation:- Upholder

Harriett
Full Age
Spinster
no occupation shown
Address:- 47 Paddington Street
Father occupation:- Labourer

Married after Banns

Witnesses:- James Lunn ( x His Mark) and Elizabeth Camford (???sp)



London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Georgina Meatyard

Name: Georgina Meatyard
Spouse Name: John Alexander Cumming
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 31 Jan 1851
Parish: Bryanston Square St Mary
Borough: Westminster
Father Name: William Meatyard
Spouse Father Name: John Cumming
Register Type: Parish Register

from image........

Georgina
Of Full Age
Spinster
no occupation shown
Address:- 202 Oxford Street
Father occupation:- deceased; Upholsterer

John
Of Full Age
Bachelor
Watchmaker
Address:- 202 Oxford Street
Father occupation:- Watchmaker

Married by Registrar's Certificate

Witnesses:- Henry Montagne and Mary Bowers (??or Bown)



found by googling ....................


Cumming, John Alexander, Watchmaker
John Alexander Cumming (son of John Cumming, Watchmaker, and his second wife Mary Caterer) was born 21 May 1823 and was a Watchmaker in or near Oxford Street, London. He married (1) 1851 Georgina Meatyard and (2)1855 Phoebe Augusta Boulton. His children were Phoebe 1855, John Gordon 1857, Charles Stuart 1860, Elizabeth Emma 1862 and George (b & d 1866). What happened to him after 1866 and his children (some of whom have been traced to 1892)



A Family Tree on ancestry says there was 1 child to John and Georgina .......

Georgina Cumming
Birth 14 Dec 1851 in 20 Adam St West, Marylebone, Middlesex, England
Death 1926 in Hendon, Middlesex, England

Married to Edwin Humphrey Fowle 20 Jan 1881
Marylebone, Middlesex, England

They have photo and certificate, so seems pretty accurate.


Georgina Meatyard died in 1851, in childbirth??

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Robert William Meatyard

Name: Robert William Meatyard
Age: Full Age
Spouse Name: Ann Lang Longbray
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 18 Dec 1845
Parish: Wapping
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: William Meatyard
Spouse Father Name: Charles Longbray
Register Type: Parish Register

from image:-

Robert
Of Full Age
Bachelor
Occupation:- Upholsterer
Address:- St John's Wapping
Father Occupation:- Upholsterer

Ann
A Minor
Spinster
no occupation shown
Address:- St John's Wapping
Father occupation:- Coachmaker

Married after Banns

Witnesses:- Charles Groom and Edward Spon (??sp)


Edward Spon signed as witness on all 4 of the entries in the Register .......... so again was probably a "professional witness".



Robert signed Robert Baker William Meatyard. The number 2 was written above Baker, and number 1 above William ..................... ???? to indicate the correct order of the names???????




sylvia

Just noticed ................



that marriage for Robert and Sarah Thompson on 1 June 1793 is AFTER the birth for William, given on that Family Tree as 16 Oct 1792 in Hanover Square, London


I can find no trace of William's baptism ........ or indeed of any children of Robert and Sarah!

That family tree had Robert Meatyard and Sarah Thompshon as William's parents.


I'm trying to find the evidence for it.

Here is the marriage of a Robert Meatyard and a Sarah Thompson ..............


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Robert Meatyard

Name: Robert Meatyard
Spouse Name: Sarah Thompson
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 1 Jun 1793
Parish: St Marylebone
Borough: Westminster
Register Type: Parish Register

from image:-

Bachelor and Spinster, of this Parish

Married by Banns

Witnesses:- Richard Boxall and Thos Bird


Richard made his mark, and Sarah could write


Thos Bird signed 3 other entries (out of 6), so was probably what is called a "professional witness" ...... ie someone paid a small amount to sign the registers if a couple did not have any witnesses of their own.

The Sarah b. 1822, died while a child


London, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-1980 about Sarah Meatyard

Name: Sarah Meatyard
Record Type: Burial
Estimated Death Date: abt 1827
Burial Date: 17 Jul 1827
Age: 5 Years 3 Months
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1822
Parish or Poor Law Union: St George Hanover Square
Borough: Westminster
Register Type: Bishop's Transcript

Address:- Mount Street


The second Sarah, b.ca 1840, married in 1860 ................

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Sarah Meatyard

Name: Sarah Meatyard
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Age: 21
Spouse Name: William Baker
Spouse Age: 24
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 17 Jun 1860
Parish: Chelsea Christ Church
Borough: Kensington and Chelsea
Father Name: William Meatyard
Spouse Father Name: Henry Baker
Register Type: Parish Register

from image:-

William Baker
Bachelor
Age:- 24
Address:- 14 Wood Street, Marlborough Road, Chelsea
Occupation:- Upholsterer
Father's occupation:- Steward

Sarah
Spinster
Age:- 21
no occupation shown
Address:- 6 (or 16 or 8) Halsey Street
Father: late William Meatyard, Upholsterer

Witnesses:- Oswald George Meatyard and Elizabeth Meatyard

Just posting this as a reference point for me


1841 Census

Name: William Meatyard
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1796
Gender: Male
Where born: Middlesex, England

Civil parish: St George Hanover Square
Hundred: Westminster
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: St George Hanover Square
Sub-registration district: Mayfair

William Meatyard 45 Upholsterer
Maria Meatyard 30 b.ca 1811, Middlesex
Georgina Meatyard 20 b.ca 1821, Middlesex
Robt Meatyard 17 b.ca 1824, Middlesex, Upholder (??should be Upholsterer)
Thomas Meatyard 14 b.ca 1827, Middlesex, Coachmaker
Emma Meatyard 11 b.ca 1830, Middlesex
Maria Meatyard 9 b.ca 1832, Middlesex
Oswell Meatyard 3 b.ca 1838, Middlesex
Sarah Meatyard 1 b.ca 1840, Middlesex

Address:- Mount Street


Also shown as living in another part of the same house .....

Robert Greenshu (??Greenshaw) 16 b.ca 1825, Middlesex, Upholder



Note that there was also the baptism of a Sarah Meatyard, b.ca 1822




sylvia

(just throwing these below in your pot Jill, if any connection later!)

Marriage
1745 MEATIARD WM CRAVEN MGT WESTMINSTER ST JAMES PALACE CHAPEL MIDDLESEX MIDDLESEX


http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/wills.htm

(above link has below £3.36 to download)

Description: Will of Margaret otherwise Margret Meatyard, Widow of Saint Saviour Southwark , Surrey Date: 20 January 1778

Chris :)

Oh yes please.

Anything would be brilliant. From what I have worked out, the name was spelt Meatyard for most of the 1800s. It seems to be around Sidney's time that it became Meteyard.

I did pick up on something a few weeks ago which suggested that the surname evolved from Meechyard or Meechard so I've kept those variations in mind.

Thank you ever so much again.

xxJ

Susan,

Can you reveal the names?

Rose

do you want me to see if I can dig any further????

EEEEEK.

Sylvia.

Millions of thank yous. I didn't believe for one minute that I would find out who William's first wife was. I mean, I knew there was a chance if I could someday find the right records to go through but I wasn't thinking it would happen any time soon.

You are brilliant.

I hope to get stuck into the family again over the weekend.

:-D <3 :-D <3 :-D <3 :-D <3 :-D <3 :-D <3