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Sorry I seem to have somehow deleted your last reply my computer is playing up tonight and I somehow added the same reply twice and deleted the wrong one! - but I did read it!
Renumbering the houses would explain why they seemed to have moved then - just a shame I couldnt catch them at home on one of the census nights!

Yes, people did move about within very short distances, but also .....

"In 1888 the General Post Office and London County Council conducted a renaming and renumbering scheme to eliminate duplicate road names throughout the LCC and to renumber houses consistently with the lowest number being closest to the local post office. This means that a house located in 1851 need not be the same house today, or even in subsequent censuses." from Victorian London A-Z Street Index website.

This fits in exactly with your ancestor's date of birth and then admission to school being either side of 1888.

Ozi

Thank you for this.
Once again I do not recognise any names there - there must have been alot of movement - When Ernest was born in 1886, his family lived in yet another house in Judd Street. I get the impression times were hard!

Yet again its a bit more information and another dead end but I expect something will be put online one day which may make this brick wall tumble.

Alice

I think these people may also be at number 70. They're on the next page which is damaged and the street numbers are missing.

Martha Rayson abt 1832 Pancrasweek, London, England Head St Pancras, London


Samuel J Seymour Caroline E abt 1855 Pancrasweek, London, England Head St Pancras, London
Caroline E Seymour Samuel J abt 1861 Pancrasweek, London, England Wife St Pancras, London
Florence Seymour Samuel J, Caroline E abt 1882 St Giles, London, England Daughter St Pancras, London
Charlotte E Seymour Samuel J, Caroline E abt 1885 St Giles, London, England Daughter St Pancras, London
May Seymour Samuel J, Caroline E abt 1887 St Giles, London, England Daughter St Pancras, London
Jessie Seymour Samuel J, Caroline E abt 1890 Pancrasweek, London, England Daughter St Pancras, London
Henry I Seymour Samuel J, Caroline E abt 1890 Pancrasweek, London, England Son St Pancras, London
William Seymour abt 1863 Pancrasweek, London, England Brother St Pancras, London


William Hammond Margaret abt 1857 Lambeth, London, England Head St Pancras, London
Margaret Hammond William abt 1863 Bloomsbury, London, England Wife St Pancras, London


John Romney Catherine E abt 1827 Marythme, Italy Head St Pancras, London
Catherine E Romney John abt 1828 St Giles, London, England Wife St Pancras, London

1891: 70 Judd St

Emma McLean abt 1827 St Lambeth, London, England Head St Pancras, London
Alexander McLean Emma abt 1866 Pancrasweek, London, England Son St Pancras, London


Elizabeth Poole abt 1843 Brompton, London, England Head St Pancras, London
George Wm Poole Elizabeth abt 1868 Bow, London, England Son St Pancras, London
Charles H Poole Elizabeth abt 1870 Bloomsbury, London, England Son St Pancras, London
Arthur Poole Elizabeth abt 1876 Bloomsbury, London, England Son St Pancras, London
Ada Poole Elizabeth abt 1878 Bloomsbury, London, England Daughter St Pancras, London


Frances Williams Emily abt 1832 Portmandg, London, England Head St Pancras, London
Emily Williams Frances abt 1836 Farringdon, Berkshire, England Wife St Pancras, London
William Williams Frances, Emily abt 1869 St Giles, London, England Son St Pancras, London
George Williams Frances, Emily abt 1874 Pancrasweek, London, England Son St Pancras, London

Thank you for this - unfortunately I dont recognise anyone there - but at least i can rule out the possibility of James being mistranscribed ...
Alice

There are 2 households at 8 Pender St in 1881.

William Marchant Sarah abt 1831 Charlton, Kent, England Head Deptford St Nicholas, London
Sarah Marchant William abt 1855 Suffolk, England Wife Deptford St Nicholas, London
Joseph Marchant William, Sarah abt 1878 Deptford, Kent, England Son Deptford St Nicholas, London
William Marchant William, Sarah abt 1879 Deptford, Kent, England Son Deptford St Nicholas, London
William Andrews abt 1849 Cambridgeshire, England Lodger Deptford St Nicholas, London


William Ross Susan abt 1813 Scotland Head Deptford St Nicholas, London
Susan Ross William abt 1813 Suffolk, England Wife Deptford St Nicholas, London
William White Annabella abt 1842 Woolwich, Kent, England Son in Law Deptford St Nicholas, London
Annabella White William, Susan, William abt 1851 Reading, Berkshire, England Daughter Deptford St Nicholas, London
Robert White William, Annabella abt 1880 Woolwich, Kent, England Grandson Deptford St Nicholas, London

Thank you again to everyone for their answers and help. I will try to persue them - just wondering if anyone would know how to look up who lived at 70 Judd street in 1891 - or 8 Pender St Deptford in 1881 . The first is the address given when Edward Ernest enrolled at school, the second the address on james Allison and Mary- ann Coxs' marriage certificate.

1881 - is this a possible??

James Allison
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Greenwich
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: Orchard Hill No 1
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Lath Render

Registration district: Greenwich
Sub-registration district: Greenwich West
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 722
Folio: 81
Page Number: 5
Household Members: Name Age
William Ward 46
Mary Ann Ward 40
James Allison 25 <<<boarder, born Manchester
John Thomson 24
Emily S. Thomson 21
William E. Thomson
Annie Cox 48 <<<m-i-law of John Thomson, a widow.

It may be a co-incidence, but you never know.

For age of father - a couple of years out to those posted so far:

James Allison
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Spouse Name: Mary Ann Cox
Spouse Age: 20
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 11 Jul 1881
Parish: Deptford St Nicholas
Borough: Greenwich
Father Name: James Allison
Spouse Father Name: James Cox
Register Type: Parish Register

There is this from the national archives site - would match the age of the 1891 James Allison found by Chris:



Folios 23-25. James Allison, born: Kirkintilloch, Stirling; Age at attestation: 29; Attested: Chatham; Joined in: 1882; Discharge reason: Limited engagement; Discharge year: 1894.

Covering dates
1894
Held by
The National Archives, Kew
Legal status
Public Record(s)
Language
English

Does anyone know where I could find the records for the James on the 1891- maybe his service record would confirm him as the right person and go on to give the circumstances of his death if he was lost at sea.
Alice

Thank you all for all your help and thoughts. I'm not sure about the death as the dates don't quite fit and Mary Ann his wife had alreadty re-married by then.i do think the 1891 census record could be right though - it's such a shame i'm unable to find him on any other census to confirm his dates etc... Im sure something else will go online soon to help.

thanks again
Alice

Name:ALLISON, Ja
Date of death:31 October 1903
Age:52
Place of death:Island Of Galita Mediterranean
Place of birth:Barry Forfashire
Belonging to service:
Ship's name:Loch Maree
Series:BT334 - Registers and Indexes of Births, Marriages and Deaths of Passengers and Seamen at Sea
Box:0031
Page:2

(described as Master, place of abode as Forfarshire. Drowned, vessel wrecked)


Not seeing another James, but not sure if above is him?)

Chris :)

1891 (maybe above?)
ALLISON, James Crew Married M 38 1853 Private R M S I
Scotland
Piece: 723
Folio: 96
Page: 5
Registration District: Sheppey
Civil Parish:
Municipal Borough:
Address:
County: Kent

Just one thought ....................


if Mary Ann was a live-in servant on the 1891 Census ............... Ernest Edward may have been living with a family member, friend, or as a nurse child


and ti is just possible that he is listed under the surname of that person


not that that makes it any easier to find him!




sylvia

Alice


Google Manchester Street School London ...............

there are at least 2 sites with information on it ...... under Bloomsbury Project.

It seems another name for it was Argyle Primary School


History
It was founded in 1880 to educate local children; it was the biggest school in the local area

It was built on a large plot of land between Manchester Street and Tonbridge Street, Bloomsbury


It does seem that it was an "ordinary" primary school ....... ie, not boarding, or for children in need of care.






sylvia

Hi - yes I do have him - its just 1891. The mystery surrounds his father James allison who it is said was lost at sea before his mother remarried. trouble is I cannot pin point dad on the census nor find a death so he is a real brick wall! One possibility is that he came from scotland - there is a census with James at sea born scotland that sort of matches but not 100% sure it was him. wish I had just one more piece of evidence to pinpoint him so I could get back further ( I still think he could haave been a bigamist)..... Alice

Alice - do you have him in later life, his marriage, death, etc?

(He seems well covered on a tree on Ancestry, apart from the 1891)

Hi there,
it seems he did have a couple of siblings but I think these died in early infancy. I know william did as I have found the record. I
\Thank you for your help - that is his birth Fairy godmother.
seems odd he is in Camden in Judd st but different number to where hewas born and Mum is in lewisham -- wonder if he was in a wprkhouse or resident in a school?
Thanks again
Alice

Not uncommon for names to be switched around


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Sep 1886

Allison Ernest Edward - Pancras 1b 67