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Geoffrey Report 7 Dec 2012 12:04

trying to find Arthur ambrose penn,b.1876.i know he was in Cheltenham from 1915 to 1920 he was supposed to have passed away at that time ,I can find no death record at all.anyone help.

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 7 Dec 2012 12:12

Could he have died in WW1 ?

have you looked on the CWCG site?

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 7 Dec 2012 12:14

which one is he??

Name: Arthur Ambrose Penn
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1875
Registration district: Hackney
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1b
Page: 551

Name: Arthur Ambrose Penn
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1875
Registration district: Aston
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume: 6d
Page: 313


MarieCeleste Report 7 Dec 2012 12:18


U.S., World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918
Name: Arthur Ambrose Penn
City: Queens
County: Queens
State: New York
Birth Date: 13 Feb 1875
Race: White
Draft Board: 185

There was more than one!

There are undocumented trees on ancestry having his death between 1920 & 1924

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 7 Dec 2012 12:19


Name: Arthur Ambrose Penn
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1896
Registration district: Portsea Island
Inferred County: Hampshire
Volume Number: 2b
Page Number: 966
Alice Agnes Ayling or Winifred Lilian Mutten


Name: Arthur Ambrose Penn
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1897
Registration district: Kingston
Inferred County: Surrey
Volume Number: 2a
Page Number: 720
Sophia Lillian Godwin or Winifred Lilian Mutten>>>

strange same lady as the one who married in 1896 ??????


MarieCeleste Report 7 Dec 2012 12:21

Back to those Ancestry trees - most state he was born Warwickshire, but one says Bermuda!
His parents given as John Frederick Penn and Mary Ann Adams.

Wife on some as Alice Margaret Eve.

These births are on the trees:

Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
Births Dec 1914
PENN Arthur J Eve Cheltenham 6a 682

Births Dec 1917
Penn Rona K O Eve Cheltenham 6a 508

Births Sep 1920
Penn Ronald A Eve Cheltenham 6a 830


Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Jun 1911
Eve Marcella Cheltenham 6a 406


GlitterBaby Report 7 Dec 2012 12:27

What evidence do you have for 1915 - 1920 ?

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 7 Dec 2012 12:31

Arthur married Winifred lilian Mutten

PENN, Arthur Head Married M 26 1875 Journalist
Lower Clapton, Middlesex VIEW
PENN, Winifred L Wife Married F 24 1877 Professional Singer
Plymouth, Devonshire VIEW
PENN, Dorothy E W Daughter F 2 1899
Plymouth, Devonshire VIEW
THOMPSON, Humphrey Boarder Single M 23 1878 Journalist
Gt Ayton, Yorkshire VIEW
MORRIS, Mary J Servant Single F 23 1878 General Servant Domestic
Bolton, Lancashire VIEW Piece: 4248 Folio: 142 Page: 20 Registration District: Leeds Civil Parish: Potter Newton Municipal Borough: Address: 19, Sholebroke Mount, Potter Newton County: Yorkshire (West riding)

This must be the Hackney reg district birth one


ErikaH Report 7 Dec 2012 12:37

from Glos BMD site

PENN Arthur J PENN PENN EVE 1914 Cheltenham Cheltenham, Charlton Kings 7A 172
PENN Roma K O PENN PENN EVE 1917 Cheltenham Cheltenham, Charlton Kings 8A 91
PENN Ronald A PENN PENN EVE 1920 Cheltenham Cheltenham, Charlton Kings 8A 491


MarieCeleste Report 7 Dec 2012 12:39

From poking about UK & US census, the one born in Hackney moved to America with Winifred - that must be his draft card I found above.

Can't find a marriage for the one born Aston that fits.

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 7 Dec 2012 12:41

Name: John Penn
Age: 53
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary A Penn
Gender: Male
Where born: Coventry, Warwickshire, England
Civil parish: Aston
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew
Town: Bordesley
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Street Address:


Condition as to marriage:


Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Aston
Sub-registration district: Deritend
ED, institution, or vessel: 79
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2415
Folio: 56
Page Number: 1
Household Members:
Name Age
John Penn 53
Mary A Penn 53
Arthur A Penn 15

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 2415; Folio: 56; Page: 1; GSU roll: 6097525.


MarieCeleste Report 7 Dec 2012 12:42

I think this is the chap we're looking for, in 1891:

PENN, John Head Married M 53 1838 Boot Maker Coventry, Warwickshire
PENN, Mary A Wife Married F 53 1838 Coventry, Warwickshire
PENN, Arthur A Son Single M 15 1876 Errand HandBirmingham, Warwickshire

Piece: 2415 Folio: 56 Page: 1
Registration District: Aston
Civil Parish: Bordesley
Municipal Borough: Birmingham

Address: 11, Green Lane, Bordesley, Birmingham County: Warwickshire


MarieCeleste Report 7 Dec 2012 12:45

British Army Service Records 1760-1915

First name(s): Arthur Ambrose
Last name: PENN
Calculated year of birth: 1874
Parish of birth: Birmingham
Town of birth: Birmingham
County of birth: Warwickshire
Age at attestation: 18 years 4 months
Attestation date: 14 March 1892
Attestation soldier number: 4255
Discharge rank:
Discharge corps: Royal Warwickshire Regiment - 6th Foot
Discharge soldier number:
The National Archives reference: WO96 / 114 / 387

There's actually very little info, no family details. Didn't appear to serve overseas.
Was discharged as "totally unfit" May 1899.


ErikaH Report 7 Dec 2012 12:48


UK, British Prisoners of War, 1939-1945
Name: R A Penn
Camp Location: Bystrice, Czech Republic

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2006

Name: Ronald Ambrose Penn
Birth Date: 29 Jun 1920
Date of Registration: Jul 2004
Age at Death: 84
Registration district: Oxfordshire
Inferred County: Oxfordshire
Register Number: G05D
District and Subdistrict: 695/1G
Entry number: 6


ErikaH Report 7 Dec 2012 12:50

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2006

Name: Arthur J Penn
Birth Date: abt 1915
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1916
Age at Death: 1
Registration district: Cheltenham
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 497


ErikaH Report 7 Dec 2012 13:22

There is no marriage in England/Wales for surname Penn to surname Eve

You say the man was born 1876..............where?

Do you have the birth cert of any of the children?


Geoffrey Report 8 Dec 2012 09:07

thanks to everyone trying to find Arthur ambrose penn,ronald ambrose penn was my uncle he was born Cheltenham 1920,on his birth cert father was Arthur ambrose penn must have died the 9 months prior to ronalds birth.


ErikaH Report 8 Dec 2012 11:37

What was the mother's name?

What was Arthur's occupation?

Why do you think he was born in 1876?


ErikaH Report 8 Dec 2012 11:50

Referring back to MC's post.............

From GlosBMD site

EVE Alice Margaret EVE EVE BALDWIN 1885 Gloucester Gloucester, South Hamlet 48 298

1911 England Census

Name: Alice Margaret Eve
Age in 1911: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Gloucester, Gloucestershire
Civil parish: Gloucester
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Street Address: 53 Howard Street, Gloucester
Marital Status: Single
Registration district: Gloucester
Registration District Number: 325
Sub-registration district: Gloucester Southern
ED, institution, or vessel: 25
Household schedule number: 10
Piece: 15319
Household Members:
Name Age
George Wills Eve 56
Alice Margaret Eve 25
George William Charles Eve 24


MarieCeleste Report 8 Dec 2012 12:14

Geoffrey - don't take what is written on certificates as 100% true! People often fibbed about someone being deceased rather than admit something more embarassing, i.e. having been dumped for a younger lover! Or sometimes it may be said to cover up a child born out of wedlock - more socially acceptable back then to be a widowed mother than an unwed mother.

It's not uncommon to see people claim on census that they are widowed but their late spouse can be found alive and well with another partner!

Also, a child born to a widow (even years after her husband's death) may have her late husband named as the father. Doesn't help us but that was the convention.