Profile | Posted by | Options | Post Date |
|
HLH
|
Report
|
6 Jan 2013 19:09 |
I am trying to find information regarding an Edward Albert Samuel who died in WW2. he was in the RAF Volunteer Service and was in 37 Squadron. He is listed on a memorial in the Alamein Memoiral Cemetery, but I am unable to find any birth record of him.
Can anyone help, please? He may also have been known as Albert Edward Samuel.
Also, I am keen to find the names of his father's parents. His father was also called Edward Albert Samuel and he was born in 1905 and registered in the St Olave's district.
Many thanks
|
|
brummiejan
|
Report
|
6 Jan 2013 19:24 |
Are you sure his father was the one born 1905? I ask this because even supposing this Edward married when only 20 years old, then any children would have been very young during WW2. Do you know how old Edward was when he died? How did you come by him at all?
Just checking!
Births Jun 1905 (>99%) Samuel Edward Albert St. Olave 1d 259
Jan
|
|
alviegal
|
Report
|
6 Jan 2013 19:33 |
??
1911 census transcription details for: 14 Oldfield Road Rotherhithe Print Close
National Archive Reference:
RG14PN1929 RG78PN68 RD24 SD3 ED16 SN25 Reg. District: St Olave (Bermondsey) Sub District: Rotherhithe Parish: Bermondsey Enum. District: 16 Address: 14 Oldfield Road Rotherhithe County: London Name Relation Condition/ Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born NORMAN, Thomas Head Married 30 years M 57 1854 Dock Labourer Unemployed London Rotherhithe NORMAN, Mary Ann Wife Married 30 years F 60 1851 London Romford Essex QUINLAN, Ellen A Daughter Married 1 years F 26 1885 London Deptford >>SAMUEL, Edward Albert Grandson M 6 1905 London Rotherhithe
Ellen's marriage.
London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Ellen Agnes Norman Name: Ellen Agnes Norman Estimated Birth Year: abt 1885 Age: 25 Spouse Name: Austin Quinlan Spouse Age: 22 Record Type: Marriage Event Date: 2 Jan 1910 Parish: Rotherhithe All Saints Borough: Southwark Father Name: Thomas Norman Spouse Father Name: Martin Quinlan Register Type: Parish Register
|
|
rootgatherer
|
Report
|
6 Jan 2013 19:33 |
SAMUEL, EDWARD ALBERT Rank:Sergeant Service No:1383065 Date of Death:20/05/1942 Regiment/Service:Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 37 Sqdn. Panel Reference Column 262. Memorial ALAMEIN MEMORIAL Additional Information: Son of Edward Albert and Hilda Samuel, of Ponder's End, Middlesex.
|
|
rootgatherer
|
Report
|
6 Jan 2013 19:35 |
????
Marriages Jun 1922 BRADLEY John W Cumpston Pancras 1b 233 CUMPSTON Edith M Bradley Pancras. 1b 233 SAMUEL Edward A Woods Pancras 1b 233 WOODS Hilda M Samuel Pancras 1b 233
|
|
rootgatherer
|
Report
|
6 Jan 2013 19:38 |
Births Mar 1924 Samuel Albert _ Woods St.Olave 1d 356
Births Mar 1926 Samuel Joan Woods St. Olave 1d 253
Births Jun 1929 Samuel Stanley G Woods St.Olave 1d 222
|
|
brummiejan
|
Report
|
6 Jan 2013 19:39 |
Here he is on Ancestry - no wonder I couldn't find him!
1911 England Census
Name: Edward Albert Samuel Quinlan Age in 1911: 6 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1905 Relation to Head: Grandchild Gender: Male Birth Place: Rotherhithe Civil parish: Bermondsey County/Island: London Country: England Street Address: 14 Oldfield Road, Rotherhithe Registration district: St Olave (Bermondsey) Registration District Number: 24 Sub-registration district: Rotherhithe Thomas Norman 57 Mary Ann Norman 60 Ellen A Quinlan 26 Edward Albert Samuel Quinlan 6
|
|
Yvonne
|
Report
|
6 Jan 2013 19:46 |
It was the Edward who died in WW2 that was born in 1905. On the CWGC site it gives his age at death as 37 - he died in 1942.
Yvonne
|
|
alviegal
|
Report
|
6 Jan 2013 19:47 |
1891 for above family so probably the wrong one. I assume Joe and Florence would be young Edward's parents.
1891 census transcription details for: 260, Lower Road, St Paul Deptford Print Close
National Archive Reference: RG number: RG12 Piece: 498 Folio: 45 Page: 6 Reg. District: Greenwich Sub District: St Paul Deptford Parish: St Paul Deptford Enum. District: 21 Ecclesiastical District: St Lukes City/Municipal Borough: Address: 260, Lower Road, St Paul Deptford County: London Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born NORMAN, Thomas Head Married M 39 1852 General Labourer Rotherhithe NORMAN, Mary Anne Wife Married F 40 1851 Ironer Romford, Essex >>SAMUEL, Florence Daughter Single F 19 1872 Ironer Romford, Essex >>SAMUEL, Joe W Son Single M 17 1874 Leather Finisher Romford, Essex NORMAN, George Son Single M 10 1881 Deptford NORMAN, Ellen A Daughter Single F 6 1885 Deptford SAMUEL, Charlotte E Daughter Single F 13 1878 Deptford
EDIT Ignore what I said above . Florence, Joe and Charlotte appear to be from a different marriage. Was Mary Ann married to a Mr Samuel previously?
|
|
rootgatherer
|
Report
|
6 Jan 2013 19:52 |
Unless I'm reading it wrong, the CWGC website doesn't give his age?
|
|
alviegal
|
Report
|
6 Jan 2013 19:54 |
Here they are.
1881 census transcription details for: 9, Reculver Rd, St Paul Deptford Print Close
National Archive Reference: RG number: RG11 Piece: 707 Folio: 106 Page: 31 Reg. District: Greenwich Sub District: St Paul Deptford Parish: St Paul Deptford Enum. District: Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough: Address: 9, Reculver Rd, St Paul Deptford County: London, Kent Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born SAMUELL, Thomas Head Married M 56 1825 Labourer Bromley, Middlesex SAMUELL, Maryann Wife Married F 30 1851 Bramford, Essex SAMUELL, Thomas Son Single M 12 1869 Scholar Dagenham, Essex SAMUELL, Florence Daughter Single F 9 1872 Scholar Bromford, Essex SAMUELL, Maryann Daughter Single F 4 1877 Scholar Dagenham, Essex SAMUELL, Joseph Son Single M 7 1874 Scholar Deptford, Kent SAMUELL, Charlotte Daughter Single F 3 1878 Scholar Deptford, Kent PROMEL, Thomas Lodger Single M 30 1851 Leather Finisher (Currier) Southwark, Surrey HAZLE, Robert Boarder Single M 22 1859 Labourer Lambeth, Surrey HARVEY, Thomas Lodger Single M 20 1861 Leather Finisher (Currier) Southwark, Surrey CLARKE, Maryann Lodger Single F 20 1861 Servant Surrey Rotherhithe
1871 census transcription details for: London Road (Mill Stone), Romford Print Close
National Archive Reference: RG number: RG10 Piece: 1645 Folio: 19 Page: 32 Reg. District: Romford Sub District: Romford Parish: Romford Enum. District: 6 Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough: Address: London Road (Mill Stone), Romford County: Essex Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born SAMALL, Thomas Head lab M 40 1831 Bramley, Middlesex SAMALL, Mary Ann Wife F 22 1849 Romford, Essex SAMALL, Thomas Son M 2 1869 Romford, Essex
|
|
rootgatherer
|
Report
|
6 Jan 2013 19:55 |
According to the 1911 Mary Ann and Thomas Norman had been married 30 years.
|
|
alviegal
|
Report
|
6 Jan 2013 20:06 |
London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Thomas Norman Name: Thomas Norman Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856 Age: 35 Spouse Name: Mary Ann Samuel, widow of 9 Portland St Spouse Age: 38 Record Type: Marriage Event Date: 2 Aug 1891 Parish: Walworth All Saints Borough: Southwark Father Name: Thomas William Stafford Norman, lighterman Spouse Father Name: Joseph Barnett, labourer (Barnett is very faint so could very well be Bennett) Register Type: Parish Register
Robert and Mary Ann Hazle were witnesses.
|
|
alviegal
|
Report
|
6 Jan 2013 20:18 |
??
>>View Record Mary Ann Bennett Jul-Aug-Sep 1868 West Ham Essex View Record William Gale Cottrall Jul-Aug-Sep 1868 West Ham Essex >>View Record Thomas Hampsher Samuell Jul-Aug-Sep 1868 West Ham Essex View Record Mary Ann Sivell Jul-Aug-Sep 1868 West Ham Essex
|
|
HLH
|
Report
|
6 Jan 2013 20:29 |
Phew! Thanks everyone, that;s really helpful but mind-boggling!
BrummieJan and Yvonne: we're sure that its definitely 2 people here. The one born in 1905 wasn't the one killed in 1942, as he joined the service at a very young age (blagging his age to his peers!) and was not very old when he died. He must have been born in the early-mid 20's.
Alviegal: Don't know for sure if you;re wrong re Florence, Joe & Charlotte, as we believe that we have a Joe & Charlotte. There was also an Esther Samuel (still living) which we can't find any birth trace of. Not sure about the content of your last posting - whether there's any connection.
Thanks to the others who have researched for me. All contributions very greatly received!!
|
|
alviegal
|
Report
|
6 Jan 2013 21:02 |
I think Thomas Hampsher (Hampshire?) Samuel married Mary Ann Bennett. They had children Thomas, Florence, Joseph and Charlotte.
When he died, Mary Ann married Thomas Norman and had George and Ellen A.
Edward Albert, 1905, is their grandson but not sure about his parents.
He married Hilda Woods in 1922 and Albert who died in WW2 was possibly born in 1924.
If you purcase the MC, the name of Edward A's father should be on it.
I know it is confusing to see all the names and records but this is the gist of it.
|
|
alviegal
|
Report
|
6 Jan 2013 21:17 |
1901 census transcription details for: 27, St Helena Road, Rotherhithe Print Close
National Archive Reference: RG number: RG13 Piece: 398 Folio: 131 Page: 20 Reg. District: St Olave Southwark Sub District: Rotherhithe Parish: Rotherhithe Enum. District: 11 Ecclesiastical District: St Barnabas City/Municipal Borough: Address: 27, St Helena Road, Rotherhithe County: London Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born NORMANS, Thomas Head Married M 45 1856 Deal Porter Rotherhithe, Surrey NORMANS, Mary A Wife Married F 49 1852 N K, Essex NORMANS, George Son Single M 18 1883 Deal Porter Rotherhithe, Surrey NORMANS, Ellen A Daughter Single F 16 1885 Cap Maker Rotherhithe, Surrey SAMUELS, Charlotte Step Daughter Single F 22 1879 Biscuit Packer Deptford, Kent
|
|
HLH
|
Report
|
6 Jan 2013 22:45 |
Sounds like they're the same family - but with an 's' on the end of the surname.
|
|
HLH
|
Report
|
7 Jan 2013 07:05 |
Alviegal = thanks so much for all that. think its all coming together now where the Samuel family fits in with the Normans.
the only query is the Albert Edward Samuel (or Edward Albert as he was known by mymother-in-law). He is listed on the Alamein Memoiral as the latter name, but guess he could have switched his names around accordingly.
:-D
|
|
rootgatherer
|
Report
|
7 Jan 2013 11:21 |
Could Esther be the daughter of Edward Albert's brother Stanley?
Name: Stanley George Samuel Birth Date: 18 Apr 1929 Date of Registration: Nov 2005 Age at Death: 76 Registration district: Epping Forest Inferred County: Essex Register Number: 51C District and Subdistrict: 470/1 Entry number: 6
|