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Hello Potty I trust you are well. Thank you so much for you're kind words.

Sorry to hear of your loss, Amanda. Please come back when things have settled down, if we be of any more help.

Thank you Potty. I appologise for my late respons as I lost my other Great Grandmother the day before you responded. I thank you so much for you'r continued help and support

Look who is living at 3 Dean Terrace in 1901 - the same Brain family that Harriet is with in 1911 - but no Harriet or Ruth, I am afraid:

1901 England Census
about Albert A Brain
Name: Albert A Brain
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Lydia Brain
Gender: Male
Where born: Bristol

Civil parish: Bristol
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Bristol
Sub-registration district: St George
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 189
Piece: 2390
Folio: 62
Page Number: 41
Household Members: Name Age
Albert A Brain 40
Lydia Brain 38
Albert A Brain 20
Mary E Brain 17
Alice E Brain 13
Florrie E Brain 11
Alfred Brain 9
Edward Brain 8
Thomas Brain 6
Emily Brain 3
James Brain 7 Months


Edit: There does seem to have been problems with this particular section of the census - a note at the end mentions that 24 houses have had at least 2 forms delivered and that the return has been re-done - perhaps Ruth, Harriet and George were somehow omitted. There are two entries for 3 Dean street.

Sorry, Amanda, no luck with either Harriet or Ruth in 1901. Perhaps somebody with FMP can do an address search on the address Ruth gives on her marriage cert?

In 1891 - living next door to the family in the 1911:

1891 England Census
about Harriet Bram
Name: Harriet Bram
[Harriet Brain]
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: George Bram
Gender: Female
Where born: Cardiff

Civil parish: St George
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew
Town: St George
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Barton Regis
Sub-registration district: St George
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1977
Folio: 46
Page Number: 7
Household Members: Name Age
George Bram 36
Harriet Bram 29


If only we can find her in 1901 - perhaps Ruth will be with her!

Harriet in 1911 (on the image Long is crossed out and Brian written over it. She is a widow:

1911 England Census
about Harrite Brain
Name: Harrite Brain
Age in 1911: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation to Head: Visitor
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Cardiff
Civil parish: Bristol
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Street Address: 44 Dean Street, Moorfields, Redfield, Bristol
Occupation: Washing
Registration district: Bristol
Registration District Number: 319
Sub-registration district: St George
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Household schedule number: 84
Piece: 14949
Household Members: Name Age
Albert Brain 50
Lydeal Brain 47
Albert Brain 29
Edward Brain 18
Thomas Brain 15
Emily Brain 12
James Brain 10
John Brain 7
Harrite Brain 50
Walter Long 39

This looks like the right family in 1871 - mother's name Ruth!:

1871 England Census
about Harriett Long
Name: Harriett Long
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: James Long
Mother's Name: Ruth Long
Gender: Female
Where born: Cardiff, Wales
Civil parish: St Philip and St Jacob
Ecclesiastical parish: St Silas
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Registration district: Clifton
Sub-registration district: St Philip
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Household schedule number: 218
Piece: 2562
Folio: 73
Page Number: 38
Household Members: Name Age
James Long 39
Ruth Long 39
Sarah Long 17
Charles Long 15
Alice Long 13
Harriett Long 11
Sophia Long 8
Ester Long 4
Caroline Long 1


Edit - all born Bristol except for Harriet and Alice.

Oh Drat! Martha and the Sarah Ann who married Joseph Hicks had different fathers - so not sisters:

England & Wales Marriages, 1538-1940
about Sarah Ann Long
Name: Sarah Ann Long
Gender: Female
Birth Date: abt 1853
Age: 24
Father's Name: James Long
Spouse's Name: Joseph Hicks
Spouse's Age: 22
Spouse's Father's Name: Almond Hicks
Marriage Date: 25 Dec 1877
Marriage Place: Bristol, Gloucestershire, England

Ancestry ties up this marriage for George and Martha to the couple in 1911 and also ties up a death for a George B Gay! This is getting very confusing!

England & Wales Marriages, 1538-1940
about George Bennett
Name: George Bennett
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1865
Age: 19
Spouse's Name: Martha Long
Spouse's Age: 21
Spouse's Father's Name: Robert Long
Marriage Date: 29 Dec 1884
Marriage Place: Bristol, Gloucestershire, England

I wonder if this could be Elizabeth in 1891 - she did have a sister Martha - will see if I can find Martha's marriage:

1891 England Census
about Elizabeth Long
Name: Elizabeth Long
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Sister-in-law
Gender: Female
Where born: Bitton, Gloucestershire, England

Civil parish: Oldland
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Keynsham
Sub-registration district: Oldland
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1942
Folio: 161
Page Number: 25
Household Members: Name Age
George Gay 25
Martha Gay 27
Ellen F Gay 2
Lillian K Gay 8/12
Elizabeth Long 24

Hi Amanda - have been looking but not finding them on the census but is this Ruth and her family in 1911 - with a daughter Harriet Elizabeth, so maybe the suggestion that the Harriet in one census was the Elizabeth in another is right:

1911 England Census
about William Henry Herbert
Name: William Henry Herbert
Age in 1911: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Leicester
Civil parish: Bristol
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Street Address: 39 Dean St, St George, Redfield, Bristol
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: stoker
Registration district: Bristol
Registration District Number: 319
Sub-registration district: St George
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Household schedule number: 40
Piece: 14949
Household Members: Name Age
William Henry Herbert 31
Ruth Herbert 29
Ernest William 7
Harriett Elizabeth 5

I think the Ruth Lory found as niece with Joseph and Sarah Ann Hicks in 1891 is probably your Ruth - it looks like Long on the image and a Sarah Ann Long could have married a Joseph Hicks i878:

Marriages Dec 1877 (>99%)

CARTER John Barton R. 6a 336
CARTER Sarah Ann Barton R. 6a 336
.*****Hicks Joseph Barton Regis 6a 336
Hill Ann Barton Regis 6a 336
*****LONG Sarah Ann Barton R. 6a 336

nudge

Oh my good greif Ilike you have been unable to find trace of Ruth in 1891 census or 1901 yet I have her marriage cert dated 1903

Amanda, it is not unusual for an Illegitimate person to give a "made up" name for a father on a marriage entry to save face. It often has an element of truth in that they sometimes give the name of a grandfather, brother or stepfather.

What I was trying to do was connect that Harriett in 1881 to the couple that had a neice called Ruth staying with them in 1891 - not very successfully though.

Thank you Rootgatherer, this whole thing is so damn confusing, on the marriage cert which is the correct one as my mum found the original the same day I had this copy it say's Ruth was 22 in 1903, fathers name George Long labourer address 3 Dean Terrace Bristol. Yet the birth cert say's Ruth Long was born 1882 to Harriet Long so I don't know if I even have the right birth cert :-S

Wondering about this Harriett?

1881

Name: Harriett Long
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Caroline Long
Gender: Female
Where born: Bristol

Civil parish: Bristol St Philip and Jacob Out
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Street Address: 15 Wade St
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Flax Spinner (M) <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Registration district: Barton Regis
Sub-registration district: St Philip & St Jacob
ED, institution, or vessel: 28
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2498
Folio: 60
Page Number: 32
Household Members: Name Age
Caroline Long 60 Pauper
George Long 20 Son, Brush Maker (Drawer)
Harriett Long 17
Sarah A. Long 13 Granddaughter

All born Bristol.

Same family in 1871?

Name: George Long
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Son
Father's Name: George Long
Mother's Name: Caroline Long
Gender: Male
Where born: Bristol
Civil parish: St Nicholas
Ecclesiastical parish: Bristol
Town: Bristol
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Registration district: Bristol
Sub-registration district: Castle Precincts
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Household schedule number: 55
Piece: 2523
Folio: 27
Page Number: 9
Household Members: Name Age
George Long 39
Caroline Long 39
George Long 11
Ellen Long 9
Elizth Long 7
Annie Long 2
Ada Long 4 months



Now I wonder if Elizabeth in 1871 is Harriett in 1881?

?????

Marriages Mar 1888

BRAIN George Barton R. 6a 192
Davis Sidney Barton R. 6a 192
Long Harriet Barton R. 6a 192
WEBB Emma Barton Regis 6a 192



Emma (Webb) and Sidney Davis are together on the 1911 census (married 23 years)

So assuming that Harriet Long married George Brain but I am going "brain" dead trying to find them together on a census!!!!!!!!!!!!!



There is this Harriet in 1891 but Ancestry has the wrong image attached so I can't check if she is Single, married or widowed.

Perhaps someone with access to FMP could check please?


1891

Name: Harriet L Brain
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Bristol, Gloucestershire, England

Civil parish: Clifton
Ecclesiastical parish: Clifton
Town: Bristol
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Barton Regis
Sub-registration district: Clifton
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1966
Folio: 77
Page Number: 2
Household Members: Name Age
Harriet L Brain 29

http://www.londonfhc.org/content/catalogue?p=England,England,Gloucester,Barton-Regis&f=1

You need to try to find out if the Poor Relief records for the area have survived. Access to the workhouse would be through Harriet seeking poor relief.

http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Clifton/

Looks like some of the records are missing .............

http://www.aigs.org.au/gloucesterff7.htm

Bristol Union Workhouse
From 1868-1878 these records were listed as the Stapleton workhouse, Clifton Union.
From 1878-1898 this became the Barton Regis workhouse, Barton Regis Union.


Births 1868-1874, 1898-1943,*********************************


Deaths 1898-1907, 1847-1898, 1907-1914


Your year, 1882, not listed....drat!!!!