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Romany gypsy ancestors. Surname Lamb. London

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 1 Jul 2016 11:59

(aah!, yes, that could be her 1901 AQ, thanks for that, don't like to 'leave the job' half undone, lol)

Chris :)


Kim Report 1 Jul 2016 10:49

Hi , Elsie Hughs my mums mother only had 2 children Gertrude and my mum Violet , I was told buy my mums son who I just met that John done fairground boxing he was young so can not rember. A lot as my mums life was a mystery before she had me and I have only just found my half siblings , so quite fascinated buy all of this , my mum
Did have dark eyes and hair , which has passed onto me and people have always commented on this look that my sons and I have , not sure if my mum was a gypsy I was told she was and then she wasent as there memory's are vague my dad never had any ideal of any of this even
Thou he came from the next village and my dads family were quite well too do , and then travelers on my mums side my man would have died ,lol . Thanks kim


AustinQ Report 1 Jul 2016 10:19

Just looking into the fairground theory:

Portsmouth Evening News - Saturday 30 March 1901

Police Court before Colonel C M Longmore at the police court this morning, Walter Ayres who described himself as a steam roundabout proprietor was charged with obtaining a sovereign by means of a trick from a lad named Cooper...

Hampshire Advertiser - Saturday 17 May 1902

Walter Ayres was charged with stealing 30lbs of white paint valued at 15s belonging to messrs. Rolf & Son, railway contractors at the parish of Soberton on the 29th ult... Prisoner is a travelling show proprietor and stayed with his vans in a field near the railway bridge...


AustinQ Report 1 Jul 2016 09:17

Chris- I'm wondering if Horace didn't marry. Maybe Matilda was his cousin? Not sure what the law was regarding marriage between cousins at that time? It would also explain the Hughes as Mother's maiden name on the children's birth records.

This is Matilda in 1911:

HUGHES Matilda Wife 27 Married 6 Years Marlborough Wilts

Could this be her in 1901:

Name: Matilda Hughes
Age: 18
Estimated birth year: abt 1883
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Father: Edward Hughes
Mother: Harriet Hughes
Birth Place: Marlborough, Wiltshire, England
Civil Parish: North Tidworth
Ecclesiastical parish: North Tidworth Holy Trinity
County/Island: Wiltshire
Registration district: Pewsey
Sub-registration district: Collingbourne
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Piece: 1947 Folio: 130 Page Number: 10
Household schedule number: 95
Household Members:
Name Age
Edward Hughes 42 Gyspy Hawker (Where born- unknown)
Harriet Hughes 40
Matilda Hughes 18 Daughter born Marlborough
Joseph Hughes 14
Henry Hughes 12
Daisy Hughes 10
Eliza Hughes 6
Phoebe Hughes 6
Ernest Hughes 4
Thomas Hughes 1


AustinQ Report 1 Jul 2016 08:56

Chris, I'll take a look for Horace in a bit- but just wanted to share this- the Graves of Walter and Amy Ayres (Kim, Amy was Elsie's sister):

Ayres Walter Ayres first name on this monument 1888 1959 71
Amy Louisa Ayres wife of Walter Ayres 1895 1950 55
Trixie B J Ayres daughter of Walter Ayres 1927 1940 13
Frederick C Weeks son-in-law of Walter Ayres 1919 1996 77

I think this is where there is some confusion as there are several births in the Wiltshire area with surname Ayres/ Eyres and mother's maiden name Hughes, but some of the children were Amy's and some were Elsie's.

From the gravestones above we now know that at least these were children of Amy and Walter (your Mam's cousins):

Births Sep 1924
Ayres Elsie G Hughes Amesbury 5a 240
(This Elsie married Frederick Weeks the son-in-law mentioned above, but I won't give further details as Elsie might still be living).

Births Mar 1928
Ayres Trixie B Hughes Amesbury 5a 206


Kim Report 1 Jul 2016 08:41

Thanks very much for all of this information it is the most I have had , very hard when you only just find these things out , they look like large family's I wonder if there are cousins still around , I will print all of this information , so they were Romany ? Don't no were the fairground fits in . Thanks kim

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 1 Jul 2016 08:20

That's the one I came across too AQ, last night, did wonder about that...

Chris :)

(expect you have to go shortly, as I do in a minute!, can't find Horace Marriage can you?, lol)

(1911 says Married 6yrs, 3 children born, 3 living)

(if a year out from her on 1939, then below a possible, but, WiltsBMD gives Mother Maiden Name Hughes!)

Births Sep 1906 (>99%)
Hughes Gertrude May Amesbury 5a 163


AustinQ Report 1 Jul 2016 08:03

Perhaps this is the death- although age is out from service record and marriage?

Deaths Mar 1964 (>99%)

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 1 Jul 2016 07:48

So Death for John missing, Marriage for Horace?...

Chris :)

(looks to be Son 1939, and possible others)

Births Mar 1914 (>99%)
HUGHES James M Barney Amesbury 5a 258

Births Jun 1908 (>99%)
Hughes Georgina Amesbury 5a 165

Births Jun 1910 (>99%)
HUGHES Agnes Maud Amesbury 5a 154

Wiltshire Birth indexes for the years: 1908

HUGHES Georgina Winterbourne History Centre BARNEY

Wiltshire Birth indexes for the years: 1910

HUGHES Agnes M Winterbourne History Centre BARNEY WINTB/8/445


21 December 1906 - The Salisbury Times, etc. - Salisbury, Wiltshire

Horace Hughes, a gipsy, was charged with driving a horse and trap Boscornbe without a light, on the night of the 4th December. He pleaded not guilty. P.C. Titt stated the night of the 4th inst. he saw horse and trap without a light ...
Hughes stated that he met a friend of his in Salisbury who gave him a lift, he called, Edward Eyres of Hurstbourne Tarrant.


AustinQ Report 30 Jun 2016 19:01

Death of Elsie?:

Name: Elsie G Ayres
Birth Date: abt 1898
Date of Registration: Sep 1942
Age at Death: 44
Registration district: Salisbury
Inferred County: Wiltshire
Volume: 5a Page: 182

National Probate Calendar:

Ayres or Eyres Elsie Georgina of Myrtledene, Amesbury, Wiltshire (Wife of John Ayres) died 14th August 1942, Administration Winchester 21 September to the said John Ayres, council employee.

There is a calendar entry for John at the same address as Elsie- but I can't find a death in Wiltshire, so perhaps he died elsewhere?

National Probate Calendar.
Ayres John of Myrtledene , Amesbury, Wiltshire, died 13th Feb 1964 Probate Winchester 15 September to Anthony Ellis Stroud solicitor


AustinQ Report 30 Jun 2016 18:54

Do you have access to newspapers? There are a few article regarding Ayre and Hughes Gypsie families in the Wiltshire area:

The Salisbury Times - Friday 20 December 1907- Gypsies In Trouble

Article about children William and John Ayres damaging growing grass at Allington.

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 30 Jun 2016 17:54

Wiltshire Birth indexes for the years: 1901

HUGHES Mary J Winterbourne History Centre EYRES WINTB/8/16

(from below free link)

(haven't read right through!, but if above relates anywhere)

Chris :)

Wiltshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1915

EYERS John HUGHES Elsie G Wilton Register Office or Registrar Attended History Centre WIL_RO/5/79

Wiltshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1916

HUGHES Amy AYRES Walter Amesbury Register Office or Registrar Attended History Centre AMES_RO/4/131

edits (perhaps that Mary J below)

1911 (Find My Past)
Fredrick Hughes Head Married Male Licensed Hawker 55 1856 Collingbourne Wilts
Ellen Hughes Wife Married Female - 45 1866 Retherwick Hants
Mary Hughes Daughter - Female - 9 1902 Allington Wilts
Elsie Hughes Daughter - Female - 13 1898 Andover Hants
Address Gomeldon Road Winterbourne Gunner Wiltshire
Parish Idmiston
County Wiltshire
Census reference RG14 PN12080 RG78 PN676 RD252 SD3 ED3 SN164
(says Married 26 yrs, 5 children born, 4 died, 1 living)

1901 (Find My Past)
Frederick Hughes Head Married Male 37 1864 Hawker Wiltshire, England
Helen Hughes Wife Married Female 33 1868 - Rotherwick, Hampshire, England
Horace Hughes Son Single Male 14 1887 Hawker Pewsey, Wiltshire, England
Amy Hughes Daughter Single Female 5 1896 - Hampshire, England
Elsey Hughes Daughter Single Female 2 1899 - Andover, Hampshire, England
Louisa Hughes - Single Female 18 1883 Hawker Hampshire, England
Parish Allington
County Wiltshire
Registration district Amesbury
Archive reference RG13
Piece number 1950
Folio 21
Page 2

Marriages Jun 1885 (>99%)
Eyres Ellen Amesbury 5a 297
Hughes Frederick Amesbury 5a 297

Wiltshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1885

HUGHES Frederick EYRES Ellen Amesbury Register Office or Registrar Attended

(according to below link, from google, also another Hughes, Gomeldon) (Son of Frederick above)

HUGHES Horace Head 25 General Dealer & Hawker Pewsey Wiltshire
HUGHES Matilda Wife 27 Married 6 Years Marlborough Wilts
HUGHES Gertrude Daughter 5 Allington Wilts
HUGHES Georgina Daughter 3 Idminston Wilts
HUGHES Agnes Daughter 1
Gomeldon Down Winterbourne Gunner Wiltshire
RG14PN12080 RG78PN676 RD252 SD3 ED3 SN190

1939 Register (Find My Past)

The Common, Pewsey R.D., Wiltshire
Horace Hughes 29 Aug 1886 Male Farm Labourer (Gent) Married
Matilda Hughes 14 Jan 1884 Female Farm Labourer Married
Gertrude Hughes 22 Aug 1907 Female Farm Labourer Single
James Hughes 14 Jan 1914 Male Farm Labourer Single

(in case anything else, although you may already know of!)


AustinQ Report 30 Jun 2016 17:40

John Ayres service record is available on Ancestry:

Name: John Eyres
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1898
Enlistment Age: 19
Marriage Date: 18 Aug 1915
Marriage Place: Salisbury
Document Year: 1917
Residence Place: Gomeldon, Nr Salisbury
Regimental Number: 100854
Regiment Name: Labour Corps
Number of Images: 11
Next of Kin: Elsie Georgina Eyres Gomeldon, Salisbury
There is a later address of 8 Exeter Street, Tavistock, and also an address Cumberton, Nr Salisbury
Occupation: Skin & Hide dealer


AustinQ Report 30 Jun 2016 17:25

Kim, I'm just copying this information over from Liz's thread so others know the family you are interested in:

John Eyres,married aged 18,born 1897 to Elsie Georgina Hughes ,she was 19,born 1896..they married @ the register office,in the Parish of St Thomas ,Salisbury,Wiltshire,on the 18/8/1915,the witness were Charles Jarvis and Charles Packet.(ref vol 5A,page 543)
John's occupation is stated as a sheepskin dealer and Elsie as an hawkers.
John's father William is also a skin dealer and Elsie's father Fred is an hawkers.
The marriage is also included in the records belonging to the R&TFH Society...I have also found the marriage of Walter Eyres and Amy Hughes,of which both John and Elsie were witness' ..and from the following information it is fair to say that both John and Walter are brothers as is Elsie and Amy.....the marriage of Walter Eyres and Amy Hughes at the register office district of Amesbury,Wiltshire on 18/3/1916
Walter is aged 29,bachelor,dealer,son of Walter Eyres,Amy is 21,daughter of Frederick and an hawker :-
Liz x

And part of your reply:

Is there any were else I can look for information too see if they had 2 daughters one of which is my mum , what's all this mean was my mum a gypsy too am I half gypsy ,is there any way I can find information on extended realitives,Just got my mums birth certifacate mothers name Hughs seems like they spelt Ayres Eyres in diffent ways just trying to track some distant relatives think that is going to be very hard , wondered what they did before they settled down . Thanks

So just to make clear, your Mum was Violet Eyres born 1926?

And this is likely the sister you spoke about:

Births Sep 1931
Ayres Gertrude
Mother's maiden name:Hughes,
Registered: Andover 2c 419

You can look for other Ayres births (possible siblings of your mother) here:

Just put Ayres in surname and mother's maiden name Hughes.


Kim Report 30 Jun 2016 16:56

Hi , back again hitting brick walls I got help from Liz but it is what I already have , I can see there are a lot of Ayres and Hughs in Wiltshire tryed every thing , I'm sure there must be cousins alive that are related some were so if anybody looking it was Elsie Hughs and John Ayres from Amesbury Wiltshire would be older generation who would probaly no . Thanks


Kim Report 29 Jun 2016 08:48

Hi , thanks for your help .kim


greyghost Report 21 Jun 2016 10:41

Have a look at this thread - Elizabeth may be able to help


George Report 21 Jun 2016 01:22

Try Googling Larry Lamb off EastEnders. He was born Egbaston, London. They did a Who do you think you are programme on him and his family were travelling gypsy fairground people You never know You may be connected to him, Good luck


+++DetEcTive+++ Report 19 Jun 2016 08:26

Welcome to the boards Kim.

Although there is no obvious connection to Amanda's family, you could send her a personal message by clicking on her name. If she still has access to the linked email address, she'll be told you are trying to contact her.

Why not start a thread of your own? It sounds very much as if you'll need copies of birth & marriage certificates to get ages/year of birth & parental names.


Kim Report 19 Jun 2016 07:09

Hi , I was recently told my mum was a gypsy her past was a secret but a relative told me her dad was either Jack or John Ayres married someone called Elsie , they settled in Amesbury Wiltshire on London rd , my mums name was Violet there was anougher sister not too sure of her name nick named her dirty gurty , I was told he made his money traveling fairgrounds boxing , this could be going back 80 years ag roughly they have all passed now ,there is a Walter Ayres buried in Amesbury and I wonder if a connection there . Thanks for any help.