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Florence Mary Timpson was born on 11-6-1883....I have her birth cert.
She married a Charles Francom Bean on 19-9-1908....I have marriage cert.( and it is correct as her father is William Timpson, cab driver.)
On 1911 census they were living in Thornton Heath,Surrey.
He is listed as Frederick Charles and the son as Charles Francom Bean!!!!!
What I would like is the death cert of FLORENCE MARY BEAN......I am going round in circles trying to find it!!
Can anyone help?????
Thank you, June Jarman

Hi June, have you ruled this one out? The informant may not have given her middle name:

England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Florence Bean
Birth Date: abt 1882
Date of Registration: Sep 1947
Age at Death: 65
Registration District: Surrey South eastern
Inferred County: Surrey
Volume: 5g
Page: 509

When/where did her husband die?

Looking at the image of the 1911 census, it was completed and signed by Frederick Charles Bean?

There is a tree on Ancestry has the following location for both her and her husband's death:

Johannesburg, Gauteng, South Africa

Might fit with this:

Britain: outbound passenger lists leaving UK 1890-1960 - person transcript

Name: Mast C BEAN
Date of departure: 7 September 1921
Port of departure: London
Destination port: Durban (Port Natal)
Destination country: South Africa
Date of Birth: 1910 (calculated from age)
Age: 11
Marital Status:
Sex: Male

Passenger recorded on: Page 1 of 14
The following people with the same last name travelled on this voyage: -
Mast A BEAN
Mast F BEAN
Mrs F M BEAN <<<
Miss J BEAN
Miss K BEAN
Ship: GUILDFORD CASTLE
Official Number: 132611
Master's name: Capt A Knight
Steamship Line: Union-Castle Mail S. S. Co. Ltd.
Where bound: South Africa
Square feet: 7625
Registered tonnage: 8063
Passengers on voyage: 424

Think you've got the right list MC, there are children Arthur, Frederick, Joan and Kathleen all born with correct mmn.

This is very interesting.......as in this family is a mystery about a girl called Phyllis who came to stay with my Nan in 1952/1956. She came from S. Africa because she was pregnant by a coloured man.....Florence was my Nan's sister. Can you look for details on the deaths in S. Africa for me?
Thank you Marie Celeste.

Was your Nan by any chance living in Staines, Middlesex at that time? (73 Worple Ave., ?)

Dea x

Nan was Doris Ethel Jesse Jeffrey...nee Timpson Don't think she was living there but she might have been visiting. Not that the address rings any bells!!
June

Sorry June, South African records aren't any that I have access to (there may be someone else on here who knows more about them) - you could try adding South Africa to your title.

If you don't have access to Ancestry then you can register with their sister site Mundia (it's absolutely free) http://www.mundia.com/gb/. You can search and view public Ancestry trees on there and also contact the tree owners. Once you've registered then do a people search and when you find the relevant tree you can ask them the source of their information.

I asked because I was looking at this incoming passenger record:


UK, Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960 about Phyllis N Bean
Name: Phyllis N Bean
Birth Date: abt 1928
Age: 26
Port of Departure: Durban, South Africa
Arrival Date: 10 Dec 1954
Port of Arrival: Southampton, England
Ports of Voyage: Durban
[Port Elizabeth]
[Cape Town]
Ship Name: Stirling Castle
Search Ship Database: View the 'Stirling Castle' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: Union-Castle Mail Steamship Company Ltd
Official Number: 164570


The address in Staines was where she was intending to stay.

There were other passengers called Bean travelling at the same time but they were all going to stay at "Ubena" Cottage, Grafthole, Nr. Torpoint, Cornwall so I don't think they were actually connected?

The others were Freda Aline aged 41 and her children John (15), Trevor (7) and Douglas (5).

Dea x

I have no experience using this database:
http://www.national.archives.gov.za/index.htm

ClicK the link for Search National Automated Archival Information Retrieval System
And then search on:
RSA - All Archives Repositories and National Registers of non-public records


Document 3 of 5
DEPOT TAB
SOURCE MHG
TYPE LEER
VOLUME_NO 0
SYSTEM 01
REFERENCE 6116/58
PART 1
DESCRIPTION BEAN, FLORENCE MARY.
STARTING 19580000
ENDING 19580000
REMARKS SURVIVING SPOUSE FREDERICK CHARLES BEAN

Maureen

Looks like Frederick travelling out in advance of the family. Headed for Cape Town, he is a gunsmith - which matches the 1911 census.

Mr F C Bean
Gender: Male
Age: 34
Birth Date: abt 1886
Departure Date: 4 Jun 1920
Port of Departure: Southampton, England
Destination Port: Cape Town, South Africa
Ship Name: Balmoral Castle
Search Ship Database: Search the 'Balmoral Castle' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: The Union-Castle Mail Steamship Co, Ltd
Official Number: 129074
Master: T J Bremner

He may have re-married after Florence died, as it looks like he died in 1965 using that link Maureen posted - left a surviving spouse Ivy.

Not sure whether they're connected but notice on the incoming passenger list that Dea posted Phyllis has a middle initial of "N"

Document 1 of 2
DEPOT TAB
SOURCE TPD
TYPE LEER
VOLUME_NO 5/1117
SYSTEM 01
REFERENCE 926/1953
PART 1

DESCRIPTION ILLIQUID CASE. DIVORCE. PHYLLIS NORA PATEL (BORN BEAN) VERSUS CASSIM MOHAMED.
STARTING 19530000
ENDING 19530000

Oh that would put a different light on the issue - the 1949 act prohibited whites from marrying non-whites, it was a criminal offence, and that certainly looks like a muslim name. May have been why she needed to get out of SA.

I have been amazed at the info all of you have supplied!!
The mystery of who/where this Phyllis came from looks now solved!!
Phyllis came to stay with my Nan Doris Jeffrey 1952/1956 and was heavily pregnant by a coloured man. She went on to have the baby and it was adopted and in the end Phyllis committed suicide...sad ending.
Up to now we didn't know which relative she was attached to, but now you have all solved that mystery.......Thank you so much.
June Jarman

Very sad, expecially since that baby may have actually been her husband's - who she may have had to divorce because of the mixed marriages act, although who knows?

Typical South African Civil Actions of interest to genealogists would be the
following:

Illiquid Case
An Illiquid case is a case where there is no monetary claim or when the
extent of the monetary claim is not pre-determined or easily calculable.
Typically a divorce action would be an Illiquid Case. Where a husband sues
for the Restitution of Gonjugal Rights - that would also be an Illiquid
Case.

Dea x

One can't help but be interested in such a sad situation, and well done those who worked it out.

The only Phyllis N/Nora Bean death in the records (none by name Patel) is this one

Name: Phyllis Norah Bean
Birth Date: 10 Jun 1908
Date of Registration: Sep 1994
Age at Death: 86
Registration District: Bridport
Inferred County: Dorset
Register Number: 25B
District and Subdistrict: 4281
Entry number: 89

perhaps the Phyllis in question was named for her?

that family in 1911 in Lewisham

Robert Fredrick Bean 31
Lucy Oram Bean 31
Phyllis Norah Bean 2
Georffrey John Whales Bean 0
Susan Hutchenson 48
May Law 17

someone does have that Phyllis in their tree at this website


There was a Bean-Bean child born in Dartford in the mid 1950s ... in fact within a very short time after the arrival given earlier in the thread ... and no marriage or death for that child ...... I just wondered whether the child might like to know something of her mother's time in England at least with someone who seemed to care for her, June's nan ...

the person who corrected the name of Charles Ernest Francom Bean in the 1911 at Ancestry earlier this year is his grandchild, and can be contacted through that website

so in any case, from the 1891 and 1901 censuses that person's great-gran Florence and your nan Doris were sisters :-)


by the way the address in Staines is now commercial, and Ancestry's phone number records for the address go back only to 1970 with someone listed there consistently up to 1981 who was not likely there in 1955. I wonder about electoral rolls?

Wow....I am gob-smacked!!
So Joonie-cloonie tell me how to contact this person who might be the daughter of Phyllis Bean......I would be happy to write to them.
I am a bit confused as to the correction of a name on Ancestry?????
Thanks, June

At Ancestry you can correct errors in the records there ... whether the information is incorrect on the original record, or Ancestry has mistranscribed it, etc. If you have a subscription for the records that is.

Earlier this year a user wrote

Charles Ernest Francom Bean rather than Charles Ernest Francis Bean
Charles Ernest FRANCOM Bean is my grandfather, who migrated t South Africa inabout 1925.

if you have a subscription to Ancestry you can click on that user's name to send a message through the system. If you don't ... well, I was about to volunteer to pass on a message, but I checked and the user has a public tree at Ancestry, and you can find it at

http://www.mundia.com

which is a mirror of all Ancestry trees - but is free to sign up, search and send messages.

Do that and search for Florence Timpson 1884 and you will find she is in 8 trees.

The person who wrote the correction at Ancestry is the one whose tree at Mundia has only 23 people in it. You can't tell from the trees what anybody's own relationship with a particular person is since living people are not shown of course, but in that person's case we know from the note at Ancestry that the tree owner is the grandchild of Charles Ernest Francom Bean. Looking at the tree it is even possible that he was Phyllis's father.

So that's the easy way to make contact, although that person last signed in to Ancestry 9 months ago. But as long as they still have the same email address they will get messages that come from the Mundia system (it is actually the Ancestry system).

if any of that doesn't make sense, just shout :-D