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Hello, I am hoping someone may be able to help show me where to turn to find info in this lady. I have been getting nowhere fast, so thought maybe somebody out there had some pointers please.

This lady is my grandfather's mother...unfortunately, he was a taboo subject in the house and no one ever talked of him or his family. Now everyone with any info on him seems to have died (now's as best time as ever to start a family tree no?! Makes it all that bit more tricky but fist pumping when you actually find something! :-D )

In the 1911 census she was known as Elise Dorothea but other places known as Dorothea Elise or Dorothea Elsie and she died as Dorothy.

Before she married, she lived in Southwalk, for the birth of my great aunt in 1905, she was living in Newington and for the 1911 census she was living in Newington North, but the birth certificate of my grandfather was in Chelsea...(births registry in 1st quarter 2012 in Southwalk).

She married in 1906 to James Henry Way, in Whitechapel, but unfortunately he changes names as often as his socks too! She died in Hounslow in 1966.

On her wedding certificate, she says her father is Henry Pelham, but I have drawn a blank there so far, and her date of birth seems made up (1889 ish) no doubt to be old enough... Again not matching dates of birth on other certificates and census' say date of birth unknown.

Oh and in the 1911 census she was noted as an office cleaner, but I have also heard she was a barmaid.

I have even wondered about her being a Barnados child, but I'm not even sure what to do about that!

Any help or advancement on this would be willingly accepted! Thank you so much to everyone in advance.

As mentioned in the help threads, I should mention I can't stick around but I will check back later, but hopefully I have given ample info as I don't know if I have anything further. D'oh! Thank you!

welcome to the boards - d'you think Southwalk should actually be Southwark?

Sorry, yes. Southwark. Stupid predictive text changed it!

What was her father's occupation?
Who witnessed the marriage?

For our reference: - (No sign of her husband?):


1911 England Census about Elise Dorothea Way
Name: Elise Dorothea Way
Age in 1911: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1889
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Civil Parish: Newington St Mary
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 16 Harper Street, New Kent Road
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: OFFICE CLEANER
Registration district: Southwark
Registration District Number: 23
Sub-registration district: Newington North
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Piece: 1800
Household Members:
Name Age
Elise Dorothea Way 22
Ivy Dorothea Way 5


Her place of birth is marked as "not known" - so maybe she was brought up in a children's home as you suggest.

For our info

WAY DOROTHY 1884 1966 1966 Deaths & burials Hounslow, Middlesex, England

Does it give an occupation for her father Henry on that cert please?

Who were the witnesses?

Dea x

??????

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
20, Sangora Road, Battersea, Wandsworth, London, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Rosa Mitchell Head Widow Female 32 1869 Living On Own Means Taunton, Somerset, England Transcription
Thomas J Mitchell Son Single Male 17 1884 No Occupation Wimbledon, Surrey, England Transcription
Elsie Pelham Boarder Single Female 17 1884 No Occupation London, England

Henry Way
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1881
Age at Enlistment: 34
Marriage Date: 13 Feb 1906
Marriage Place: Register Office Whitechapel London S
Residence Place: 34 Dugdale St, Kenington SE
Document Year: 1915
Regimental Number: 278,631
Regiment Name: Devonshire Regiment
Number of Images: 40
Form Title: Short Service Attestation


Name Relation to Soldier
Henry Way Self (Head)
Dorothea Pelham Spouse
Ivy Dorothy Way Child
Leonard Charles Way Child

Connected

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/living_relatives/thread/1347030

In the 1901 census posted by Jacqueline, Elsie Pelham's birthplace is given as St George Hanover Square.

The 1911 census data you put in seems to match, it puts only herself and Ivy on the census, not surprisingly as my grandfather was born just after the census.

The army info is superb, thank you gritty, I have never been able to get that!

The 1901 census info I found matched that of Jacqueline, proposing that she was a border, but I can't find anything to back it up or knock it down with, so far. If her birth place was st George's Hanover square, it might work but again, nothing concrete so far. Even when I search for her birth with a 10 year give or take, the only one I come up with for being born at st George's, is an Eliza Louise.... So where did The Dorothea/Dorothy etc section come into play?!

On her death certificate it says that her husband was a cooper.

Her wedding certificate says she was 21 at the time (13/021906) and that her father was a deceased manufacturing boot maker...Not really sure what to believe though. As apparently her father and her husband's father were both deceased and one a boot maker the other a shoe maker....And for Dea and Jacqueline, the witnesses we're E Charles and H Smith....

Thank you for all this help! Fingers crossed I get a bit further with it all! :-)

'Deceased' sometimes meant 'unknown'

21 in Feb 1906 does not indicate an 1889 birth.

1884 is much more plausible, which is what her death record gives

Yes, the 1911 census suggests 1889 as year of birth, but wedding cert if she really was 21 puts her 1885 ish. And her death cert puts her at 82 in 1966 so 1884... And none of them suggest where she could have come from...

1884 would work with the 1901 census suggesting a border, but no records seem to work for her birth place, if it was right... I think there was a workhouse at st George's Hanover square though... Is it likely she could have been born to someone there? How does someone go about finding things like that out?!

If a child was born in the workhouse they usually have a baptism. You find there were a lot of baps together all saying Workhouse.

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Ivy Dorothy Way
Name: Ivy Dorothy Way
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 2 Jun 1905
Father's Name: Henry Way***************SAILOR
Mother's name: Elsie Way***************
Parish or Poor Law Union: Southwark St Michael and All Angels
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

Address 151 Manor Place Walworth

National School Admission Registers & Log-books 1870-1914 Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) Ivy Dorothy
Last name Way
Birth year 1905
Birth date 21 Apr 1905
Event year 1914
School name St John the Divine School, Warham Street, Camberwell (Girls)
Town Camberwell
County Surrey
Parent name(s) Henry
Book type Admissions
Archive reference LBL-ED-STJ-2-2-4
Folio / page no. 3
Archive Lambeth Archives, Minet Library

(occ. for Henry, Barman, 34, Dugdale Ct. Date of Last Attendance 7/7/16. Cause of Leaving Removed)

Chris :)

Wow thanks Chris! So she was called Elsie for the baptism. Now I need to go try find her baptism...Elsie Pelham? and a findmypast account it seems!

Just thinking out loud here, but it appears that Henry (Ivy's) dad was a barman according to her school records in 1916...a sailor at her baptism in 1905 and in the Devonshire regiment in 1915.... Something sounds fishy with the switch from sailor to soldier or is that a beginners nose smelling wrongly? Was it common for sailors to switch....
It at least rings a bell as there were rumours he was gassed and had to be repatriated, hence the barman. But still no closer to finding out info on her mum Elsie/ Elise/Dorothea/Dorothy unfortunately... Ever the illusive lady. :-P

Wild shot in the dark:

IF Elsie / Dorothy was indeed born in St George Hanover Square district, whether in the workhouse or not, and IF she was illegitimate, and didn't know who her father was, perhaps she picked a local aristocratic surname for herself.
Or maybe this one was actually her father, who knows:


1891 England Census about Henry Pelham Aichibald Donglars Dark T Kewcastle
Name: Henry Pelham Aichibald Donglars Dark T Newcastle
[Henry Pelham Archibald Douglas Pelham Clinton]
[Henry Pelham Archibald Douglas Duke of Newcastle]
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Katherina Florance May Duchess of Newcastle
Gender: Male
Where born: St George Hanover Square, London, England
Civil Parish: St George Hanover Square
Ecclesiastical parish: St George Hanover Square
Town: London City
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 65 Hill Street
Registration district: St George Hanover Square
Sub registration district: Mayfair
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 68
Folio: 118
Page Number: 14
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Pelham Archibald Douglass Dark T Newcastle 26
Katherina Florance May Duchess of Newcastle 19

(and lots of servants below)

Bridget Mary Mulhall 43
Louisa Pestell 40
Mary Elizabeth Lorent 22
Emily Jouett 15
Mary Kelk 24
Elizabeth Jones 24
Eliza Atkins 22
Jane Child 24
William Henry Odd 35
George Lines 28
James Smith 40
Charles Edward Taylor 28
John William Day 18
Frank Stephens 20
Charles Jarmon 27
Arhtur Arthur 19
Henry Edwards Thatcher 22
Jane Powell 27
Alfred Richard Adams 33
Rosana Maryann Adams 37


Incidentally, the workhouse closed in 1886:
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/StGeorgeHanoverSquare/