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The 1939 register suggested by Joonie- is for a Frank Reuben Newman (although I don't see a matching birth in the indexes)- this is them on the 1938 electoral register:

Year: 1938
County or Borough: Tower Hamlets
Ward or Division/Constituency: Poplar
Address: 6 Box Street

Frank Reuben Newman
Benjamin Thomas
Benjamin Robert John Thomas
Maud Thomas

well the 1946 electoral roll is certainly interesting re the witnesses!

I am always amazed how one can get a new toy (the 1939 register) and forget the old ones (electoral rolls) ... and by 'one' I mean 'me' :-)

(although I guess this was one reason I did persist in asking the year of the marriage)

so the witnesses were apparently closely connected after all

and I wonder whether Eileen Cullen might be the aunt



for the 1939 household I was looking at, this is the only registration that could account for a Frank Reuben Newman born in 1911

Births Mar 1912
Newman Frank R W -Whittaker- Mile End 1c 811

this seems to be the only death that would match that birth and vice versa

Name: Frank William R Newman
Birth Date: 25 Nov 1911
Date of Registration: Mar 1971
Age at Death: 59

Re Frank Reuben Newman- I don't see a matching births in the indexes either, but feel he must be a relative of Maud. The name Reuben appears in her family- her Uncle was Reuben, her brother was Thomas Reuben, and her brother Sydney has a child Reuben in 1912. There may be other Reuben's in the family also.

This may be Maud's brother in the RN 1901:

Name: James Newman
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1881
Relation to Head: Crew
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Bath, Somerset, England
Civil Parish: Vessels
Town: Malta
County/Island: Royal Navy
Registration district: Royal Navy at Sea and in Ports Abroad
Sub-registration district: RN Ships
ED, institution, or vessel: Illustrious
Piece: 5326 Folio: 43
Page Number: 11 Household schedule number: 1
------------------------------

His Naval Record (which I think runs until April 1911?

Reference: ADM 188/323/189872
Description: Name Newman, James
Official Number: 189872
Place of Birth: Bath, Somerset
Date of Birth: 01 December 1880
Date: [1896]
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
Former reference in its original department Vol No.189-2
Legal status: Public Record
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6699820

ah Austin, I was conflicted between that James Newman and another in 1911, but the naval record settles it



the only Jeremiah Barry in Poplar in 1939

Jeremiah Barry 1902
Emily (A) Barry 1900
2 more people who are officially closed

there is also

Jeremiah Barry 1893 Barking M.B. Essex
(no one else in household)

Marriages Jun 1923
Ainger Emily A Barry Poplar 1c 639
Barry Jeremiah Ainger Poplar 1c 639
(at least 7 kids)

just collecting possibilities ...

Births Sep 1918
Cullen Eileen W M -Newby- W.Ham 4a 391
(no marriage to fit those surnames, no other births with those surnames)

that Eileen seems to be in someone's tree here whose surname is somewhat interesting


Eileen Cullen is at the Waverley Hotel in 1954; no Barry or Newman is
(sorry, typo fixed - I had typed 1943)

in 1946, as you say Austin, all four of Eileen Cullen, Jeremiah Barry, Elizabeth with her name before marriage, and Frank Newman are there
(Eileen at least is incorrectly transcribed at Ancestry as being at Boswell House on the same page)

Jeremiah and Eileen are still there in 1947; the Newmans are gone

the names at the hotel are in alphabetical order, so we have no way of knowing what their connections were ... there may have been none, they may have just been friends/acquaintances by way of being neighbours in the hotel, which I would suspect

- edit - or as Austin says, working there, to be such long-term residents maybe

but thanks to AustinQ we now have a handle on where Frank was just prior to the marriage and where Barry and Cullen came from

I'll be interested to hear what Frank's occupation was on his marriage - maybe work connected with the hotel?

We still also need to know what occupation he lists for his father.

Hopefully Lesley will get back us.

Wow you guys have been so busy on this. I must say also mea culpa I too overlooked the electoral roll. There is certainly food for thought here. I will have to get back to you all after the year end as I am off to bonnie Scotland for family gatherings and my friend is also away. I started looking into this a while back and I don't recall all the details now so I will have to do a bit more digging on my side.

Regarding Tillard, I too felt this might not be the true name, but possibly a corruption of Tyler or Taylor etc. It may of course be a complete invention.

I found a death record for a Roy Tilliard Newman, b 24/10/41 who died in Croydon in 1999 but I couldn't find any other references for this name. However as the 1939 register closed entry may be a Newman son born in 1938 I am now wondering if there is a connection here.

Sorry guys that I will have to leave it at this for the moment. You have inspired me to have another go at this one. Thank you once again for all your help.

Have managed to get a bit more info regarding the marriage cert:

Both Frank and Elizabeth's addresses are the Waverley Hotel. Frank's occupation is down as "Hotel cook". Her profession is not given. Frank's father is shown as deceased, occupation "Furniture packer".

Not sure if this gets us any further forward though.