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Looking details of my father John Kenneth Kerr.

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date


ArgyllGran Report 18 Sep 2016 14:19

Were the other children born in Crumlin, Sandra?


Sandra Report 18 Sep 2016 20:14

Yes, Frank born in 1938 and Heather born in 1946. I have been round the village and met lots of people who were school friends of my dad, uncle and aunt. All said the same thing - there was never a father in the house and my Uncle Frank was told by his mother that his father died in the war. Heather wasn't born until May 1946 and she used John Kerr's name as her father!!
Again is spoke with people who were close with Heather and there was never a man in the house!
Heather is living in Scotland but won't reply to my text messages. I have told her all that I found out but she never replies. I know she has the phone, as I gave her number to a girl she used to chum about with and she answered the phone. The friend asked heather if she had ever been back to Crumlin and she said No, there were too many bad memories!


Kay???? Report 18 Sep 2016 22:08

There is no marriage in Scotland,

Would Margaret and John have gone into US to marry.?

Has Margarets electoral address been checked where she lived in Ireland to see what name she went under,did she die as Kerr?


Sandra Report 19 Sep 2016 00:23

No she died as Mckee, so they never married!
I guess i will never know what happened John Kerr. I have googled his address but nothing pops up.

I think I will try to apply for my dad's birth certificate tomorrow. Can anyone tell me how I go about sending off a copy of his death certificate and my birth certificate to the records office. Do I just fill in the online birth application and then send them separately with a cover letter?


ArgyllGran Report 19 Sep 2016 09:05

On the link I posted earlier it says,

" If applying online you will need to submit the supplementary documents together with a letter quoting the online order number, by fax or mail"

If they want originals, make sure you keep photocopies.


Sandra Report 19 Sep 2016 10:53

ArgylGran, thank you I missed that bit about the online order number.

:-D :-D


JoonieCloonie Report 19 Sep 2016 19:51

If you can submit by fax, it does sound like you can send copies.

Just order on line and send the docs along after, quoting the order number :-)


Sandra Report 19 Sep 2016 21:31

Joonie Cloonie - I have just applied for my dad's birth certificate. i now have to send a letter from an Alternate Guarantor, along with a copy of my birth certificate and my father's death certificate. i still don't see a fax option or number but my son is going to scan these in work and send everything to his friend in Canada, which should speed up the process. Unfortunately he doesn't fit into the Canadian Guarantor criteria :-(


JoonieCloonie Report 20 Sep 2016 02:49

Sandra, I already explained that the "guarantor" has nothing to do with your application for your dad's birth certificate :-)

A person applying for their own birth certificate needs a guarantor to prove to the government office that they are who they say they are. Just like having someone sign your passport photo.

This really, really does not apply to you.

You need to submit your dad's death certificate and your own birth certificate, showing that he is deceased and you are his child.

The contact info is at the bottom of the page there!/

Apply by mail or fax

Complete the application form and mail to:

189 Red River Road, PO Box 4600
Thunder Bay, ON
P7B 6L8

or fax it to:
>>>> 1-807-343-7459

I don't think sending everything to a friend of your son in Canada would speed anything up!

Just fax the copies of the two certificates, with your letter saying what they are for and quoting the file number (and I would write the file number written on the copy you fax for good measure). That's what it says on that page:

>>>> You can apply for a birth certificate for:
a deceased person; if you are *the next of kin*, executor or estate administrator. You will need to provide *a death certificate* or a funeral director’s statement of death, and any other documentation requested by ServiceOntario. You can only get a long form birth certificate for a deceased person. If applying online you will need to **submit the supplementary documents together with a letter quoting the online order number, by fax** or mail

(I assume you got a file number when your order was confirmed.)


Sandra Report 20 Sep 2016 15:36

Thank you JoonieCloonie.

I wish they wouldn't say you need something when you don't. I was really panicking about that guarantor form. They even attached a template letter for the guarantor to sign!!

I will fax all off tomorrow and wait, very impatiently for the birth certificate :-D


JoonieCloonie Report 20 Sep 2016 18:28

Well now I just hope I'm guessing right :-D :-D :-D

But the reason for a guarantor for a person to get their own birth certificate is so that people can't get fake ID to use themself. Like, you can't apply for Jane Doe's birth certificate ... that you can then use to get the equivalent of a national health card (very valuable to non-residents in places like Canada and the UK with national health plans), and a passport (very valuable to criminals and terrorists) and a job ... and your house ...

The 100 year rule in Ontario (not just for the certificate itself but for the info it contains) is to protect privacy, the guarantor rule is to prevent identity fraud.

In England the privacy isn't really there because the index is public, and the smaller protection against identity theft is that if you apply for a birth certificate for someone under age 50, you have to supply all the gory details that aren't in the index, like exact date of birth, mother's full name, etc.

In Ontario you can't get a birth certificate for someone under age 100 unless you actually prove you are that person -- or -- prove that the person is deceased. It's an either/or, from what the site says, even though it doesn't seem 100% clear.

I don't know about Ireland ... but if it is like England with a 50-year rule, that actually complicates the situation a bit, to those of us in the know. You could possibly be a poser ... say somebody else (who knows all your personal details, or you are over 50) got your Irish birth certificate and your dad's death certificate and is pretending to be your father's daughter in order to get an birth certificate for an 85 year old person born in Ontario, so they can claim some kind of benefit in Canada!

All in all I think that is just me inventing problems to solve and I don't think that's going to come up :-D

... but if that is the case for Irish birth certificates and somebody there knows the Irish rules and this bizarre scenario occurs to them, well let us know if somebody is that clever !!

If they are, there is probably some sort of civil service award they should be nominated for ;-)


Sandra Report 22 Sep 2016 18:53

:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D,

Thanks JoonieCloonie, that makes perfect sense actually. Well, we will wait with baited breath.

Next thing on the cards might be a wee trip over to Canada to see dad's birth place and maybe where my infant Uncle is buried.


Sandra Report 21 Nov 2016 13:24

Well after about 4 weeks I received a guarantor form in the post to be completed. Luckily my son's friend lives in Alberta and he is doing guarantor for me. I'm beginning to think this certificate will never come


Sandra Report 21 Nov 2016 13:29

OOh I have one more piece of information. An old family friend recollects that there used to be a photo somewhere of a man in uniform on a horse. They think it might have been a Mounties uniform. Does anyone know if it is possible to find out if this could have been my grandfather. I know his name and his address if this helps. Also could he was went off in duty around 1930?? . Maybe something happened to him. This might explain why my grandmother came home to Ireland on her own with a 3 month old baby :-(


ArgyllGran Report 21 Nov 2016 16:16

This site may help??


JoonieCloonie Report 28 Nov 2016 02:59

well it's a long shot ...

Sgt. John Kerr

Birth: Nov. 24, 1898
Death: Jan. 12, 1971


Grey Mountain Cemetery
Yukon Census Division
Yukon, Canada
Plot: B-004

Created by: Rod Carty
Record added: May 11, 2010
Find A Grave Memorial# 52249705

The same cemetery has a Helen Kerr died 1978 but there are no details. The person who created the memorial pages does not seem to be related (and the 'virtual flower' is from someone who remembers Canadian veterans at the site, so also not related).

That John and Mrs John Kerr were on the voters' list in Whitehorse 1958-1968, him being a security officer at that point and then retired.

But again, the name is so common ...

However, with what seems to be his RCMP number from the grave, you might be able to find info about that person? since his grave shows a date of death more than 20 years ago ... although you would probably need a death certificate ..........

or as Kay says enquire generally from the RCMP about the name.

There was an RCMP Cst John Kerr killed on duty pre-1900, so there were very likely more than these two John Kerrs in the force.

for info about Mount Hope Catholic Cemetery in Toronto:

96% of graves have been photographed, and there is none for an infant Kerr.


JoonieCloonie Report 28 Nov 2016 04:00

I meant to post this first:

Well, either I was wrong about guarantors or someone in the vital records office is an idiot. :-) (or actually figured out what I was saying before!)


Sandra Report 24 Jan 2017 18:27

Well I am still waiting on my certificate. I am hoping that since they haven't contacted me, my paperwork was Aok!


JoonieCloonie Report 28 Jan 2017 22:11

There'd be no harm in sending an email to enquire whether your paperwork is complete!


Ru Report 29 Jan 2017 09:47

Hello Sandra and all helpers on this,

I sent for a death certificate for my uncle who died in Canada in 1931. There are many forms to complete and they ask for certain information and details to confirm your relationship etc.,

This was B.C; they took their time to search for me (Free of charge) and once located the information, I then had to produce all sorts of family certificates - originals. I cannot praise them enough for the information I finally received and their dedication is without question.

May I suggest you complete the forms on line, where you do not have the requested information or documents you put an * and at the end you state what you have or do not have and let them com back to you. Or attach (copy and paste if applying on line) a covering letter. They will help you all the way, despite it seeming long and drawn out, the wait and frustration is worth it.

I have followed this with interest and would add the Presbyterian Church is strict but fiercely dedicated to its members and their families - thinking Paisley here - and there is not doubt that the Canadian authorities would have the information you require unless there is something unforeseen and then they will inform you of this.

By the way - all sorts of reasons why they were in Canada. Farming was the reason for my uncle being sent there in the late 1920's and this was the case of many young men at that time.

Good luck, (to not know does eat away at ones mind)