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I have my Grandmothers marriage certificate, and BMDs for all her 8 children. With most document of hers , that states her age, gives her a different year of birth when working backwards. A variance of 5 years. Her maiden name was Brown (Margaret).
She married James Casey in Liverpool -29/71903. Her age is given as 21. The 1911 census page states that Margaret is 26, and has been married for 8 years. Eight from 26 gives marriage at age 18. This suggests Y.O.B as 1885. Her first born arrived in November 1903--So she was 5 months pregnant at time of marriage. Many people gave a false age back then. HOW--can I ---for sure, find the right Margaret Brown's Birth certificate? There are a great many, and i have bought two wrong 'uns already. She was widowed in 1918, remarried 29/ 8/1942, to James Goodwin, and died 16/5/ 1950 in Liverpool. The GR search system does not allow for change of name through two marriages to death. Thank you all. Arfermo.

What was her Father's name on the marriage certificate?


1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
7 Raymond St Liverpool, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Occupation Age Birth year Birth place
James Casey Head Married Male General Labourer 31 1880 Co Wexford Ireland Resident
Margret Casey Wife Married Female - 26 1885 Liverpool
Thomas Casey Son - Male - 7 1904 Liverpool Transcription
Mary Casey Daughter - Female - 5 1906 Liverpool
Annie Casey Daughter - Female - 3 1908 Liverpool
William Casey Son - Male - 1 1910 Liverpool

Married 8 years 4 children born and still living

1939 register shows DOB - might not be entirely accurate of course

Goodwin (Casey) Household (1 Person)
4 Tenterden Street , Liverpool C.B., Lancashire, England
Attach to tree View original imagePrint
FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) DOB SEX OCCUPATION MARITAL STATUS SCHEDULE SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER
Margaret Goodwin (Casey) 24 Sep 1884 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Widowed 185 1

Change of name noted on register 15.4.1943 - not necessarily the marriage date, just when notified

DoB from 1939 register would fit with declared age on 1911 census. Might have been a little white lie at marriage and it would have made her a bit closer to James age.

If DOB correct then her birth should have been register Q3 or Q4 1884 (up to 6 weeks from the birth in which to register)

perhaps Margaret said she was 21 because she was under age to marry

No other initial shows on marriage or 1911 or 1939 register

The only birth showing on free bmd for the right period in Liverpool

Births Dec 1884 (>99%)
Brown Margaret Liverpool 8b 21

The following at a push as RD covers parts of Liverpool

Brown Margaret W. Derby 8b 563

Liverpool birth posted above

From the GRO index giving Mother's maiden name

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:

BROWN, MARGARET MORRIS
GRO Reference: 1884 D Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 21

This would be the West Derby one
BROWN, MARGARET THOMSON Order
GRO Reference: 1884 D Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 563

What name and occupation does she give for her father on her marriage certificates please?

WOW--I'm overwhelmed by you responses and efforts--thank you all. Now lets take another look. ---rootgatherer--James Casey--(23), His father was Thomas Casey--'General Labourer'. Margaret's father was--James Brown--'Dock Labourer'. both Irish born I'm told.
Malyon--yes I think you are right, and having a six month baby bulge made it all urgent.. At age 21, no parental approval was required. My Paternal grandparents fibbed about their ages too, and married outside the area.
Greyghost--you have been busy. Thanks for the info--there is huge gap in our search material between the Wars. I've decided to order a copy of the West Derby entry--and hope for the best. I will keep you all updated --thanks again. Arfermo.

what was the address given for Margaret on the marriage certificate???

??????

England & Wales, Christening Index, 1530-1980

Name: Margaret Brown
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 9 Oct 1884
Christening Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map:
View this parish
Father: James Brown
Mother: Mary Ann Brown
Search Photos: Search for 'Liverpool' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection

SylviainCanada, Thank you very much indeed for your research work, I have a good picture forming, and I have great confidence of reaching fruition--i will update you all,--Arfermo.

Liverpool, England, Catholic Marriages

Name: Jacobum Casey (44 Eldon Place)
Marriage Date: 29 Jul 1903
Parish: St Sylvester (Sylvestri), Lancashire, England
Spouse's Name: Margaretam Brown (15 Hopwood St.)
Father's name: Thomae Casey
Spouse Father's Name: Jacobi Brown

Witnesses:
Catherina Foley (6 Westmoreland Place)
Michale Butler (99 Athol St.)

This is the Margaret from the Liverpool 1884 birth (mmn Morris):

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
6 Court, Brick Street, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Mary Brown Head Married Female 35 1856 - Liverpool, Lancashire,
James Brown Son - Male 13 1878 Coal Dealer Assistant Liverpool, Lancashire,
Laurie Brown Daughter - Female 11 1880 Scholar Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Charlotte Brown Daughter - Female 7 1884 Scholar Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Margaret Brown Daughter - Female 5 1886 Scholar Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Alice Brown Daughter - Female 1 1890 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
------------------------------------------

Same family in 1901- father, James:

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
House Court, 8, Slade Street, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

James Brown Head Married Male 51 1850 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Mary A Brown Wife Married Female 50 1851 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Charlotte Brown Daughter Single Female 18 1883 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Alice Brown Daughter Single Female 12 1889 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
William Brown Son Single Male 4 1897 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
-------------------------------------------

Possible marriage of James and Mary:

Name: James Brown (mariner)
Gender: Male
Age: 25
Birth Year: abt 1851
Marriage Date: 28 Nov 1876
Marriage Place: Everton, St George, Lancashire, England
Father: James Brown (labourer, deceased)

Spouse: Mary Frederickson (widow)
Age: 24
Father: Thomas Morris (joiner, deceased)

Possible for James Birth:

Name JAMES CASEY
Date of Birth 3rd April 1879
Place: Kilmannon
Group Registration ID 9672180
SR District/Reg Area Wexford
Father: Thomas Casey (farmer)
Mother: Mary (formerly Moran)

His family 1901:

Residents of a house 22 in Bargy Commons (Newcastle, Wexford)
Casey Thomas 50 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic Co Wexford Farmer Married -
Casey Mary 50 Female Wife Roman Catholic Co Wexford Dressmaker Married -
Casey Peter 20 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Wexford Carpenter Not Married -
Casey Philip 19 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Wexford Farmers Son
Casey Margaret 16 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Wexford Farmers Daughter
Casey William 14 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Wexford Scholar
Casey Agnus 12 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Wexford Scholar
Casey John 11 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Wexford Scholar
Donoghue Anne 72 Female Aunt Roman Catholic Co Wexford No Occupation Single

Mary Ann Morris in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
Name: Mary Ann Morris
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Single
Marriage Date: 9 Jun 1871
Marriage Place: St. Matthew, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father: Thomas Morris
Spouse: Anton Frederickson
FHL Film Number: 1545929
Reference ID: p 162 ln 324


Anton Frederickson in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
Name: Anton Frederickson
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Single
Marriage Date: 9 Jun 1871
Marriage Place: St. Matthew, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father: Charles Frederickson
Spouse: Mary Ann Morris
FHL Film Number: 1545929
Reference ID: p 162 ln 324

Son William Brown's birth cert is on Ancestry.

1896 St Martin, in the County of Liverpool

William Brown 11th Oct 1896 Burnet Street
Father James Brown....Occ: Seaman Merchant Service
Mother Mary Brown late Frederickson formely Morris

Marriage......

1934 St Martins in the Field, Liverpool
William Brown: (Bachelor) Labourer......67 Benledi? Street
Father: James Brown (Seaman)
Spouse: Sydney Berry (Spinster)....67 Benledi? Street
Apouse Father: Thomas Berry (Carter)
Witnesses: Athur John Gibson and Martha Gibson


William Brown on the 1939 Register

Brown Household (4 People) 18 Mellor Street , Liverpool C.B., Lancashire, England

William Brown 11 Oct 1896 General Labourer,Road Work
Sydney Brown 16 Jan 1903 House Wife
Ellen Woodcock (Brown) 09 Dec 1934 Under School Age
Mary Hodgins (Brown) 07 Nov 1936 Under School Age

Thanks PricklyHolly--If I see you looking through my window, I'll be very surprised, I'm on the 8th floor.--
AustinQ--my, that is a lot of material, I'd better copy and annalise it all. I never dared to take my searches across the water into Ireland. I knew my maternal Grandfather came from Wexford, but I had enough to search on this side of the sea. Thanks for all the hard work. i will make good us of it. I have just took another gamble, and ordered a copy of the James and Margaret wedding certificate; dated 1884. I will have to wait and see--which I am too used to doing. Arfermo.

There is another Margaret @1883 with parents James Brown 1840 born Wexford a Corn Porter (Docks) and wife Alice born Wexford.

1871 St Pauls Liverpool.Dale Street reg district also there 1881/91.
1881 Highfield St 3 House 5 Court Dale Street

No sign of any of them in 1901 but on 1891 census James occupation has Corn Porter (Docks).

Just thought with it saying Margaret's dad James a dockworker on her marriage records!!

Maryb.

Mary- saw that too. There's a whole heap of Browns in that area- glad it's not my family!!

However, if you mean the census below, then I think that Margaret has middle name Ann (see birth from GRO below):

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Upper Milk Street, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

James Brown Head Married Male 51 1840 Coin Porter Ireland
Alice Brown Wife Married Female 48 1843 - Ireland
John Brown Son Single Male 24 1867 General Labourer Liverpool, Lancashire
Thomas Brown Son Single Male 20 1871 Shop & Hose Maker Liverpool, Lancashire
May Brown Daughter - Female 18 1873 General Servant Liverpool, Lancashire,
James Brown Son Single Male 16 1875 Shop Boy Liverpool, Lancashire,
Sarah Brown Daughter Single Female 14 1877 - Liverpool, Lancashire,
Alice Brown Daughter Single Female 12 1879 General Servant Liverpool, Lancashire,
Margaret Brown Daughter - Female 8 1883 Scholar Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Richard Brown Son - Male 2 1889 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England

BROWN, SARAH CATHERINE mmn: BROWN
GRO Reference: 1877 M Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 105

BROWN, ALICE mmn:BROWN
GRO Reference: 1880 J Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 92

BROWN, MARGARET ANN mmn: BROWN
GRO Reference: 1882 S Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 78