Profile | Posted by | Options | Post Date |
|
Arfermo
|
Report
|
13 Jun 2017 16:43 |
I have my Grandmothers marriage certificate, and BMDs for all her 8 children. With most document of hers , that states her age, gives her a different year of birth when working backwards. A variance of 5 years. Her maiden name was Brown (Margaret). She married James Casey in Liverpool -29/71903. Her age is given as 21. The 1911 census page states that Margaret is 26, and has been married for 8 years. Eight from 26 gives marriage at age 18. This suggests Y.O.B as 1885. Her first born arrived in November 1903--So she was 5 months pregnant at time of marriage. Many people gave a false age back then. HOW--can I ---for sure, find the right Margaret Brown's Birth certificate? There are a great many, and i have bought two wrong 'uns already. She was widowed in 1918, remarried 29/ 8/1942, to James Goodwin, and died 16/5/ 1950 in Liverpool. The GR search system does not allow for change of name through two marriages to death. Thank you all. Arfermo.
|
|
greyghost
|
Report
|
13 Jun 2017 16:49 |
What was her Father's name on the marriage certificate?
1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription 7 Raymond St Liverpool, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Occupation Age Birth year Birth place James Casey Head Married Male General Labourer 31 1880 Co Wexford Ireland Resident Margret Casey Wife Married Female - 26 1885 Liverpool Thomas Casey Son - Male - 7 1904 Liverpool Transcription Mary Casey Daughter - Female - 5 1906 Liverpool Annie Casey Daughter - Female - 3 1908 Liverpool William Casey Son - Male - 1 1910 Liverpool
Married 8 years 4 children born and still living
|
|
greyghost
|
Report
|
13 Jun 2017 16:52 |
1939 register shows DOB - might not be entirely accurate of course
Goodwin (Casey) Household (1 Person) 4 Tenterden Street , Liverpool C.B., Lancashire, England Attach to tree View original imagePrint FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) DOB SEX OCCUPATION MARITAL STATUS SCHEDULE SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER Margaret Goodwin (Casey) 24 Sep 1884 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Widowed 185 1
Change of name noted on register 15.4.1943 - not necessarily the marriage date, just when notified
|
|
greyghost
|
Report
|
13 Jun 2017 16:54 |
DoB from 1939 register would fit with declared age on 1911 census. Might have been a little white lie at marriage and it would have made her a bit closer to James age.
If DOB correct then her birth should have been register Q3 or Q4 1884 (up to 6 weeks from the birth in which to register)
|
|
malyon
|
Report
|
13 Jun 2017 16:57 |
perhaps Margaret said she was 21 because she was under age to marry
|
|
greyghost
|
Report
|
13 Jun 2017 17:03 |
No other initial shows on marriage or 1911 or 1939 register
The only birth showing on free bmd for the right period in Liverpool
Births Dec 1884 (>99%) Brown Margaret Liverpool 8b 21
The following at a push as RD covers parts of Liverpool Brown Margaret W. Derby 8b 563
|
|
greyghost
|
Report
|
13 Jun 2017 17:09 |
Liverpool birth posted above
From the GRO index giving Mother's maiden name
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
BROWN, MARGARET MORRIS GRO Reference: 1884 D Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 21
This would be the West Derby one BROWN, MARGARET THOMSON Order GRO Reference: 1884 D Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 563
|
|
rootgatherer
|
Report
|
13 Jun 2017 17:15 |
What name and occupation does she give for her father on her marriage certificates please?
|
|
Arfermo
|
Report
|
13 Jun 2017 18:42 |
WOW--I'm overwhelmed by you responses and efforts--thank you all. Now lets take another look. ---rootgatherer--James Casey--(23), His father was Thomas Casey--'General Labourer'. Margaret's father was--James Brown--'Dock Labourer'. both Irish born I'm told. Malyon--yes I think you are right, and having a six month baby bulge made it all urgent.. At age 21, no parental approval was required. My Paternal grandparents fibbed about their ages too, and married outside the area. Greyghost--you have been busy. Thanks for the info--there is huge gap in our search material between the Wars. I've decided to order a copy of the West Derby entry--and hope for the best. I will keep you all updated --thanks again. Arfermo.
|
|
SylviaInCanada
|
Report
|
13 Jun 2017 21:00 |
what was the address given for Margaret on the marriage certificate???
|
|
SylviaInCanada
|
Report
|
13 Jun 2017 21:13 |
??????
England & Wales, Christening Index, 1530-1980
Name: Margaret Brown Gender: Female Christening Date: 9 Oct 1884 Christening Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map: View this parish Father: James Brown Mother: Mary Ann Brown Search Photos: Search for 'Liverpool' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
|
|
Arfermo
|
Report
|
13 Jun 2017 21:41 |
SylviainCanada, Thank you very much indeed for your research work, I have a good picture forming, and I have great confidence of reaching fruition--i will update you all,--Arfermo.
|
|
AustinQ
|
Report
|
14 Jun 2017 06:59 |
Liverpool, England, Catholic Marriages
Name: Jacobum Casey (44 Eldon Place) Marriage Date: 29 Jul 1903 Parish: St Sylvester (Sylvestri), Lancashire, England Spouse's Name: Margaretam Brown (15 Hopwood St.) Father's name: Thomae Casey Spouse Father's Name: Jacobi Brown
Witnesses: Catherina Foley (6 Westmoreland Place) Michale Butler (99 Athol St.)
|
|
AustinQ
|
Report
|
14 Jun 2017 07:54 |
This is the Margaret from the Liverpool 1884 birth (mmn Morris):
1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription 6 Court, Brick Street, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Mary Brown Head Married Female 35 1856 - Liverpool, Lancashire, James Brown Son - Male 13 1878 Coal Dealer Assistant Liverpool, Lancashire, Laurie Brown Daughter - Female 11 1880 Scholar Liverpool, Lancashire, England Charlotte Brown Daughter - Female 7 1884 Scholar Liverpool, Lancashire, England Margaret Brown Daughter - Female 5 1886 Scholar Liverpool, Lancashire, England Alice Brown Daughter - Female 1 1890 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England ------------------------------------------
Same family in 1901- father, James:
1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription House Court, 8, Slade Street, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
James Brown Head Married Male 51 1850 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England Mary A Brown Wife Married Female 50 1851 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England Charlotte Brown Daughter Single Female 18 1883 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England Alice Brown Daughter Single Female 12 1889 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England William Brown Son Single Male 4 1897 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England -------------------------------------------
Possible marriage of James and Mary:
Name: James Brown (mariner) Gender: Male Age: 25 Birth Year: abt 1851 Marriage Date: 28 Nov 1876 Marriage Place: Everton, St George, Lancashire, England Father: James Brown (labourer, deceased)
Spouse: Mary Frederickson (widow) Age: 24 Father: Thomas Morris (joiner, deceased)
|
|
AustinQ
|
Report
|
14 Jun 2017 08:35 |
Possible for James Birth:
Name JAMES CASEY Date of Birth 3rd April 1879 Place: Kilmannon Group Registration ID 9672180 SR District/Reg Area Wexford Father: Thomas Casey (farmer) Mother: Mary (formerly Moran)
His family 1901:
Residents of a house 22 in Bargy Commons (Newcastle, Wexford) Casey Thomas 50 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic Co Wexford Farmer Married - Casey Mary 50 Female Wife Roman Catholic Co Wexford Dressmaker Married - Casey Peter 20 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Wexford Carpenter Not Married - Casey Philip 19 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Wexford Farmers Son Casey Margaret 16 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Wexford Farmers Daughter Casey William 14 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Wexford Scholar Casey Agnus 12 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Wexford Scholar Casey John 11 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Wexford Scholar Donoghue Anne 72 Female Aunt Roman Catholic Co Wexford No Occupation Single
|
|
PricklyHolly
|
Report
|
14 Jun 2017 10:24 |
Mary Ann Morris in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973 Name: Mary Ann Morris Gender: Female Marital Status: Single Marriage Date: 9 Jun 1871 Marriage Place: St. Matthew, Liverpool, Lancashire, England Father: Thomas Morris Spouse: Anton Frederickson FHL Film Number: 1545929 Reference ID: p 162 ln 324
Anton Frederickson in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973 Name: Anton Frederickson Gender: Male Marital Status: Single Marriage Date: 9 Jun 1871 Marriage Place: St. Matthew, Liverpool, Lancashire, England Father: Charles Frederickson Spouse: Mary Ann Morris FHL Film Number: 1545929 Reference ID: p 162 ln 324
|
|
PricklyHolly
|
Report
|
14 Jun 2017 11:33 |
Son William Brown's birth cert is on Ancestry.
1896 St Martin, in the County of Liverpool
William Brown 11th Oct 1896 Burnet Street Father James Brown....Occ: Seaman Merchant Service Mother Mary Brown late Frederickson formely Morris
Marriage......
1934 St Martins in the Field, Liverpool William Brown: (Bachelor) Labourer......67 Benledi? Street Father: James Brown (Seaman) Spouse: Sydney Berry (Spinster)....67 Benledi? Street Apouse Father: Thomas Berry (Carter) Witnesses: Athur John Gibson and Martha Gibson
William Brown on the 1939 Register
Brown Household (4 People) 18 Mellor Street , Liverpool C.B., Lancashire, England
William Brown 11 Oct 1896 General Labourer,Road Work Sydney Brown 16 Jan 1903 House Wife Ellen Woodcock (Brown) 09 Dec 1934 Under School Age Mary Hodgins (Brown) 07 Nov 1936 Under School Age
|
|
Arfermo
|
Report
|
14 Jun 2017 12:59 |
Thanks PricklyHolly--If I see you looking through my window, I'll be very surprised, I'm on the 8th floor.-- AustinQ--my, that is a lot of material, I'd better copy and annalise it all. I never dared to take my searches across the water into Ireland. I knew my maternal Grandfather came from Wexford, but I had enough to search on this side of the sea. Thanks for all the hard work. i will make good us of it. I have just took another gamble, and ordered a copy of the James and Margaret wedding certificate; dated 1884. I will have to wait and see--which I am too used to doing. Arfermo.
|
|
Mary
|
Report
|
14 Jun 2017 13:40 |
There is another Margaret @1883 with parents James Brown 1840 born Wexford a Corn Porter (Docks) and wife Alice born Wexford.
1871 St Pauls Liverpool.Dale Street reg district also there 1881/91. 1881 Highfield St 3 House 5 Court Dale Street
No sign of any of them in 1901 but on 1891 census James occupation has Corn Porter (Docks).
Just thought with it saying Margaret's dad James a dockworker on her marriage records!!
Maryb.
|
|
AustinQ
|
Report
|
14 Jun 2017 15:20 |
Mary- saw that too. There's a whole heap of Browns in that area- glad it's not my family!!
However, if you mean the census below, then I think that Margaret has middle name Ann (see birth from GRO below):
1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription Upper Milk Street, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
James Brown Head Married Male 51 1840 Coin Porter Ireland Alice Brown Wife Married Female 48 1843 - Ireland John Brown Son Single Male 24 1867 General Labourer Liverpool, Lancashire Thomas Brown Son Single Male 20 1871 Shop & Hose Maker Liverpool, Lancashire May Brown Daughter - Female 18 1873 General Servant Liverpool, Lancashire, James Brown Son Single Male 16 1875 Shop Boy Liverpool, Lancashire, Sarah Brown Daughter Single Female 14 1877 - Liverpool, Lancashire, Alice Brown Daughter Single Female 12 1879 General Servant Liverpool, Lancashire, Margaret Brown Daughter - Female 8 1883 Scholar Liverpool, Lancashire, England Richard Brown Son - Male 2 1889 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
BROWN, SARAH CATHERINE mmn: BROWN GRO Reference: 1877 M Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 105
BROWN, ALICE mmn:BROWN GRO Reference: 1880 J Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 92
BROWN, MARGARET ANN mmn: BROWN GRO Reference: 1882 S Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 78
|