Find Ancestors

To add to that 1922 voyage where their names are scored out -

they were going to a friend:
James Docherty, 1012 Gillane Street, Lawndale, Philadelphia.

The tattoo info is confusing, as the details are partly on James's line, and partly on Helen's.
However, comparing the positioning of words against other names on the same page:

James: Fresh complexion, brown hair, grey eyes. Tattoo on left arm.
Helen: Fresh complexion, brown hair, brown eyes. Tattoo on left arm.
Robert: Fresh complexion, fair hair, blue eyes. No marks of identification.

Yes , they could have known each other in either Chorlton or Dunfermline.


ADDED:

??? On Valuation Roll:

MYERSCOUGH
J
Tenant/Occupier
HOUSE 25 BACKMARCH ROAD
DUNFERMLINE
1920
VR002600039-



Helen Hogg
in the 1891 Scotland Census
Name: Helen Hogg
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relationship: Daur (Daughter)
Father's Name: Robert Hogg
Mother's Name: Isabella Hogg
Gender: Female
Where born: Slamannan, Stirling Shire
Registration Number: 414
Registration district: Carnock <<<<<<<<<<
Civil parish: Carnock
County: Fife
Address: Oakley Rows
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 4
Household schedule number: 36
Line: 3
Roll: CSSCT1891_125
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Robert Hogg 31 Head
Isabella Hogg 35 Wife
Helen Hogg 11 Daur (Daughter)
William Hogg 7 Son
Isabella Hogg 5 Daur (Daughter)
Mary Hogg 1 Daur (Daughter)

Helen's not with her parents in 1901.

Brilliant. I was beginning to doubt the premise that 1901 Joseph and Annie are the same persons, but this is beginning to make so much sense.
Chorlton is where his sister Annie Wilton (granny Annie) was 1916 Chorlton where she gave birth, and again Manchester in 1912 where she gave birth.
1939 she is found at 21 Albert avenue Manchester, as Callaghan.
All the rest of the family are either at Chorlton on Medlock or Manchester through this time.
With your help this is getting solved.
If a homeward journey was found …

Question… James is the one with the tattoo? so they must know each other from either Chorlton area or Dunfermline,

Good find - re 1923 travel record.
As Joseph was still on the Valuation Roll in 1925, I hadn't looked very closely at any travel before then.


???
James Myerscough
in the Ohio, U.S., Naturalization Petition and Record Books, 1888-1946
Name: James Myerscough
Record Type: Naturalization
Departure Date: 30 Apr 1922
Departure Place: Sourthampton, England
Arrival Place: New York
Petition Date: 1927
Petition Place: Ohio, USA
Ship: Caronia
Spouse: Helen
Court: Northern District, Eastern Division

Born 5 April 1874, Barrow-in-Furness..
Occupation: janitor.
Wife, Helen, born 25 March 1883, in Scotland.
Son, Robert, born 18 April 1914, England. [ But he was born in Scotland - see at end of this post ]



Marriages Sep 1915 (>99%)
Hogg Helen A Myerscough Chorlton 8c 1909
Myerscough James Hogg Chorlton 8c 1909


On the travel record below, James 48, Helen 40, and Robert 5, are all scored out, so obviously didn't travel that time, but went on the "Caronia" later that month:

Helen Myerscough
in the New York, U.S., Arriving Passenger and Crew Lists (including Castle Garden and Ellis Island), 1820-1957
Name: Helen Myerscough
Gender: Female
Ethnicity/ Nationality: Irish
Marital status: Married
Age: 40
Birth Date: abt 1882
Birth Place: Scotland
Other Birth Place: Stirling
Last Known Residence: Rosyth, Scotland
Departure Port: Glasgow, Scotland
Arrival Date: 12 Apr 1922
Arrival Port: New York, New York, USA
Final Destination: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Years in US: Permanently
Citizenship Intention: Yes
Height: 5 Feet, 7 Inches
Hair Colour: Brown
Eye Colour: Brown
Complexion: Fresh
Identifying Marks: Tattoo on Left Arm
Person in Old Country: Robert Hogg
Person in Old Country Relationship: Father-In-Law
Person in Old Country Residence: Robella Cottage, Carnoch, DUNFERMLINE.
Person in US: James Dogherty
Person in US Relationship: Friend
Ship Name: Algeria


Helen Myerscough
in the Ohio, U.S., Naturalization Petition and Record Books, 1888-1946
Name: Helen Myerscough
Record Type: Naturalization
Departure Date: 1 May 1922
Departure Place: Southampton, Englnd
Arrival Place: New York
Marriage Date: 24 Jul 1915
Petition Date: 1929
Petition Place: Ohio, USA
Ship: Caronia
Spouse: James
Court: Northern District, Eastern Division


Son Robert's birth:

MYERSCOUGH
ROBERT W A
mmn HOGG
M
1917
424 / 255
Dunfermline

Port of Quebec ships manifest …
Date 1.10.1923 S S Montlaurier
Joseph Wilton
Pob Lancashire England, race English, nationality Scotland.
Last permanent residences Dunfermline, Scotland
Nearest relative in country whence last came,
wife: mrs. Mary Wilton, 99 golfdrum street, Dunfermline
Ever in u.s. from. No
Paid by self
Destination name and address relative or friend to join there
Cleveland Ohio, Frd. (Friend?) Jas. Myers’s Cough ,
4901 Kerman avenue, Cleveland, Ohio
Money? Shown? no - 45
Ever arrested or deported or excluded from admission No
Purpose in coming and time remaining Perm
Head tax status 48126
Height 5 ft.5 in.
Complexion Fr.
hair Br.
Eyes Grey
Distinguishing marks None

(Joseph was baptised 6.3.1888)

———
Seeking James Myers Cough …
???
1881 Gloucester st. Mary de Lode, Clare street
James myers cough age 27 Birth estimate 1854
Birth place Strood, Kent
Married, a Tailor, Lodger

Probably. It turns out that the bus journey was around 1952/3 to Sanquhar, Dumfriesshire and the uncle was not the lost Joseph, but his nephew, also a WILTON, b. 1916, noted here lest it confuses the issue.

As the relative born 1938 remembers Annie going to visit Joseph, that must have been at least 1943-ish or later

Wonderful work.
So to recap… Mary Ellen does seem to be in Dunfermline until 1940,
perhaps in 1935 she rents a house and the shop. ?
Joseph appears in Dunfermline until 1925.
The marriage for the target couple was Preston, not Prescott as per the couple in St Helens in 1939.

So Joseph did survive the ww1, but I’m wondering how to equate with the family stories. Maybe he was dealing with Shell Shock or other trauma ( wild guess) and did end up in an asylum. If true, it had to be accessible to his sister Annie who lived in Manchester in 1939., for her visits (don’t know what year .. and Annie was not averse to telling untruths) (As Callaghan … she gave her birth as 1892 on 1939 which was way out ).
At least no one finds him going to Canada where his sisters were, so that avenue is closed.
This is a big help thanks as it’s beginning to fit the family stories.Annie’s kids were put on a bus to go to Scotland to visit and aunt and uncle. ,!!!!

I will try to find out more…

BUT -

This may be the St Helen's man in 1939 - in which case the stated DOB isn't anything like one in Oct-Dec 1887 - and this couple married in 1909, so NOT your Joseph:

Joseph Wilton
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Joseph Wilton
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Birth Date: 7 Jan 1886
Residence Date: 1939
Address: 11
Residence Place: St Helens, Lancashire, England
Occupation: Wire Maker Press Operator Heavy Work Hydraulic
Line Number: 17
Schedule Number: 5
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: Nona
Borough: St Helens
Registration district: 456a/2.
Inferred Spouse:
Jane Wilton
Inferred Children:
Alfred Wilton
Mary Wilton
Household Members (Name) Age
Joseph Wilton 53
Jane Wilton 53
This record is officially closed.
Alfred Wilton 14
Mary Wilton 10


Births Dec 1925 (>99%)
Wilton Alfred Owen Prescot 8b 1298

Births Jun 1929 (>99%)
Wilton Mary Owen Prescot 8b 1322

Marriages Jun 1909 (>99%)
OWEN Jane Prescot 8b 975
WILTON Joseph Prescot 8b 975

Maybe a possible death, bearing shipyard work in mind:

Joseph Wilton
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Joseph Wilton
Death Age: 61
Birth Date: abt 1886
Registration Date: Oct 1947[Nov 1947] [Dec 1947]
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration District: St Helens
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10f
Page: 402


or maybe this :

Joseph Wilton
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Joseph Wilton
Death Age: 80
Birth Date: abt 1886
Registration Date: Jan 1966[Feb 1966] [Mar 1966]
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration District: West Ham
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 5e
Page: 871


Age stated at death depends on how accurate the informant's information is.

These are the only feasible deaths I can see in England, Scotland, or Wales.

There are no likely emigration records.

Unfortunately, both Joseph Wilton and Mary Ellen Wilton are very common names, and as they appear to have moved around the country, presumably for work, they could be anywhere, or died anywhere, after 1921.

There's no death of any Joseph Wilton anywhere in Scotland after 1921, apart from a 21-year old with middle name John, in 1950-51.

You can register with Scotland's People and buy 30 credits for £7.50 to check out this vague possibility and to look at the Valuation rolls (2 credits) -

Joseph named 1925, so Mary probably there but not listed herself
Not seeing either Joseph or Mary in 1930

In 1935 and 1940 Mary is listed so where is Joseph

1940 VR
Surname Forename Title Status Place Parish Year Reference Number
WILTON MARY E MRS TENANT
SHOP 68 NETHERTOWN BROAD STREET MOODIE STREET
DUNFERMLINE 1940 VR002600059-


1935 - the above address seems to be split into 2 -

Surname Forename Title Status Place Parish Year Reference Number
WILTON MARY MRS TENANT HOUSE 12 NETHERTOWN STREET EAST
DUNFERMLINE 1935 VR002600054- View (2 credits)

WILTON MARY E MRS TENANT SHOP 68 MOODIE STREET
DUNFERMLINE 1935 VR002600054- View (2 credits)

There is a death of a Mary Wilton aged 77 in Glasgow (North) in 1954. This would make the birth around 1887. They could have moved from Fife dockyard to Glasgow shipyards (clutching at straws here)

6 credits would allow you to look at the full death certificate for it's details

However not seeing a possible death for Joseph or Mary

Scotlands People -shows on Valuation rolls records -

Surname Forename Title Status Place Parish Year Reference Number
WILTON JOSEPH TENANT/OCCUPIER HOUSE 99 GOLFDRUM STREET
DUNFERMLINE 1925 VR002600044

but not after that

1921 census ? shows them in Dunfermline, Fife at 99 Goldrum Street

Joseph Wilton 31 b Lancaster, Lancashire shipyard Driller HM Dockyard Rosyth
Mary E Wilton 35 b Preston, Lancashire Home duties

Tatham is a village and parish in City of Lancaster district
Goosenargh is a parish in City of Preston district


Surname Sort descending Forename Year Gender Age at census Ref RD Name County / City
WILTON MARY E 1921 F 35 424/ 18/ 11 DUNFERMLINE FIFE

WILTON JOSEPH 1921 M 33 424/ 18/ 11 DUNFERMLINE FIFE


As I've used a few credits to look at the census, I'll attempt to send to you via PM

The 2 census you refer to, easier to "see' this way

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Millhouses, Tatham, Lunesdale, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
William Moorby Head Married Male 67 1834 Farmer Long Preston, Yorkshire, England
Jane Moorby Wife Married Female 65 1836 - Wray, Lancashire, England
William Moorby Son Single Male 24 1877 Quarry man Wray, Lancashire, England
Annie Wilton Nil Single Female 14 1887 General servant (domestic) -
Joseph Wilton Nil Single Male 13 1888 Scholar -

Place of birth for Annie and Joseph is written as Not known on original, has only English
-------------------------------

1911 Census For England & Wales
Nook Cottage Caton, Caton, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship to head Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Joseph Wilton Head Married Male 23 1888 Cowman on farm Lancashire Tatham
Mary Ellen Wilton Wife Married Female 25 1886 Housekeeper Lancashire Goosnargh
John Seed Brother in law Married Male 24 1887 Horseman on farm Lancashire Goosnargh
Emma Seed Sister in law Married Female 24 1887 Housekeeper Lancashire Catterall
Mary Seed Niece - Female 1 1910 - Lancashire Catterall

Joseph and Mary married 1 year, no children born

Not seeing any births to the couple after this

One last try with this family… on page one you will see
Joseph Moore Wilton s.o. Simon Moore Wilton and Annie Townsend.
He is the last child to trace…. And I’m struggling
He was left in Plymouth workhouse with his siblings, when his mother Annie set up house with Cousins taking the baby Leonard with her.
He is found with his sister Annie in 1901 on a farm in on around Tatham, lancs. (Which is probably why his birth place is given as that by the farmer)

By 1911 he is at Rook cottage, Caton, Lancs age 23,
Wife Mary Ellen Wilton (was Seed b. 1885) age 25
John Seed bro in law 24 born goosnargh
Emma Seed wife sis in law 24
Mary niece 1 wife and daughter b. Catterell
Baptism for Mary Ellen 14.6.1885 at Lancaster Goosnargh nr. Preston Lancs.

I couldn’t find anything further for either of them until yesterday, but this is all I have
Marriage
1 sep 1909 st. James, Whitechapel. Lancs
Joseph Wilton 22 farm servant Bachelor wood acre farm, goosnargh
Mary Ellen seed 24 spinster wood acre farm goosnargh
GROOMS FATHER SAMUEL MO-E WILTON farmer
Brides father John Seed, farm labourer
Wits Edward Maudsley, Percy Bretherton, Maggie Seed (could be her mum) Annie Baines (?)

After this I can’t see any records to match…
However there is a tale in the family that his sister (known as granny Annie) used to get dressed up to visit him (known by relative when a child, she born 1938). It is assumed he was in an asylum, but equally it could be a grave she was visiting??

Any clues would help us, and of course there was a two wars to hamper the search.
Grateful for your past help. G

Thank you argyllgran and all for this valued help. It seems I'll not be able to find Annie Townsend, but the further information about Ellen's/Nellie's child is valuable compensation.

From time to time I'll look for Annie in1891, in case there is a further clue about her birth, but I think she is hiding. She was already pregnant with Ellen who was born in the November if I remember correctly.
Although she left the first three children in the workhouse, she took the toddler Leonard with her, as he is with the Cousins in 1901.

:-\

I don't think this has been posted before:

James Gideon Warren
in the UK, Royal Navy Registers of Seamen's Services, 1848-1939
Name: James Gideon Warren
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 6 Apr 1909
Birth Place: Plymouth, Devon
First Service Date: 29 Sep 1925
First Ship Served On: Impregnable
Last Service Date: 29 Dec 1927
Last Ship Served On: Resolution
Service Number: J 115387


James G Warren
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
Name: James G Warren
Registration Date: Apr 1938
[May 1938]
[Jun 1938]
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration District: Portsmouth
Inferred County: Hampshire
Spouse: Irene M Silman
Volume Number: 2b
Page Number: 1377


Sgnl Bosun James Gideon Warren
in the UK and Ireland, Find a Grave Index, 1300s-Current
Name: Sgnl Bosun James Gideon Warren
Birth Date: 6 Apr 1909
Birth Place: Plymouth, Plymouth Unitary Authority, Devon, England
Death Date: 25 Nov 1941
Cemetery: Portsmouth Naval Memorial
Burial or Cremation Place: Portsmouth, Portsmouth Unitary Authority, Hampshire, England

Lost at sea: Died in the Mediterranean Sea off Soloum on HMS Barham.


James Gideon Warren
in the UK, Commonwealth War Graves, 1914-1921 and 1939-1947
Name: James Gideon Warren
Gender: Male
Age: 32
Birth Date: abt 1909
Death Date: 25 Nov 1941
Cemetery: Naval Memorials United Kingdom Part X
Burial Country: England
Region or Memorial: Memorial Register

RN; HMS Barham; Panel 45, column 3.


James Gideon Warren
in the England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1995
Name: James Gideon Warren
Death Date: 25 Nov 1941
Death Place: Portsmouth
Probate Date: 24 Sep 1942
Probate Registry: Winchester, Chester, England

WARREN, James Gideon, of 26 Seafield Road, Copnor, Portsmouth died on or since 25 November 1941 on war service.
Administration Winchester 24 September to Irene May Warren, widow.
Effects: £932 5s 9d.



Irene May Warren
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Irene May Warren [Irene May Morley]
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Married
Birth Date: 9 Dec 1916
Residence Date: 1939
Address: 43 Sydenham Ter
Residence Place: Portsmouth, Hampshire, England
Occupation: Unpaid Domestic Duties
Line Number: 2
Schedule Number: 18
Sub Schedule Number: 4
Enumeration District: EBGD
Borough: Portsmouth
Registration district: 90/2
Household Members Age
Elias Silman 48
Emily Silman 49
Muriel Silman 22
Irene May Warren 23
Graham Warren 0


Marriages Dec 1947 (>99%)
Morley Victor A Warren Portsmouth 6b 918
Warren Irene M Morley Portsmouth 6b 918

No further help with Annie, but just to round off this post on 12 Jan 2018 -

"Sylvia found ... Edward in 1911..
I'm wondering if Ellen 20 born Exeter is his first child b. 1892..
..but I can't find a marriage for Ellen to Spriggs, nor a birth for James Spriggs...unless he is James G Cousins born Plymouth JunQ 1909.,,as 1911 seems to say place of birth Plymouth, St. Andrews !!! "


Yes, the 1909 birth is the right one - but it was a late addition.
The birth was registered as both Warren and Cousins.

When you look at the images, you can see that both of the 1909 entries were added by hand, with a reference to March 1916.:

Births Jun 1909 (>99%)
COUSINS James G Plymouth 5b Mch/16
Warren James Gideon Plymouth 5b Mch/16


Births Mar 1916 (>99%)
Cousins James G Cousins Plymouth 5b 402
Warren James G Cousins Plymouth 5b 402


It looks as if the birth wasn't actually registered until 1916, although he was born in 1909.

EDIT:

Oops! I see this has already been answered by AustinQ on 12 Jan 2018 - though with a slightly different interpretation..

OK - re-reading all the posts in the earlier part of this thread, before we were side-tracked by Annie Ellen Hooper!

To recap -

On page 4 you posted info from a descendant of Annie, who confirmed that Annie had died in Bristol in 1904, aged 39.
That's the death suggested by Sylvia on page 1 - surname Cousins.

We have various sightings of Annie, either directly or indirectly (via births of her children) all the way back to her marriage in 1883 to Simon Moore Wilton in Liskeard, Cornwall 1883.

Her father was William, a labourer.
Her address was Pipe Well Street, Callington, Cornwall

Her stated age at death suggests birth c1865.
At marriage in 1883 she says she's 21, implying birth c1862.
1901 census, posted by safc on page 1, says she was born c1870 in Launceston, Cornwall.

Presumably approx 1862/1865 is more likely, given her marriage in 1883.

The only Cornwall births of a Townsend with first name anything like Annie, 1860-70, are the two already suggested;

Susan Ann , 1865, Tavistock
and
Elizabeth Ann, 1868, Liskeard.

Susan Ann had father William (quarryman), and sister Bessie.
Living in Tavistock in 1881.
Born Milton Abbot, Devon.

We can rule her out:

Susan A Townsend
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Susan A Townsend
Gender: Female
Age: 25
Relationship: Servant
Birth Year: 1866
Birth Place: Milton Abbot, Devon, England
Civil parish: Portsea
Ecclesiastical parish: St Jude
Residence Place: Portsea, Hampshire, England
Registration district: Portsea Island
Sub registration district: Landport
ED, Institution or Vessel: 51
Neighbors:
Piece: 874
Folio: 37
Household Members Age Relationship
Francis B Bulkeley 62 Head
Rosanna M Bulkeley 53 Wife
Frances E Bulkeley 34 Daughter
Constance L R Bulkeley 21 Daughter
Nina St C Bulkeley 18 Daughter
Susan A Townsend 25 Servant
Elizabeth Ellis 23 Servant
Emma Woodruff 16 Servant


Elizabeth Ann's father was Richard - so we can also rule her out - which is a pity, because she lived in Callington where Annie married in 1883:

Elizabeth A Townsend
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Elizabeth A Townsend
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: 1869
Relation: Daughter
Gender: Female
Where born: Callington, Cornwall, England
Civil parish: Callington
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England
Registration district: Liskeard
Sub-registration district: Callington
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household schedule number: 73
Piece: 2233
Folio: 12
Page number: 16
Household Members Age Relationship
Richard Townsend 36 Head
Emma Townsend 36 Wife
William H Townsend 13 Son
Jim Townsend 11 Son
Bessy Townsend 9 Daughter
Emily Townsend 6 Daughter
Elizabeth A Townsend 2 Daughter

She married Samuel Griffin in 1889.



If the stated birthplace of Cornwall in 1901 census is wrong, there's no telling where she might have been born.
Re an Irish connection -
an Anne Townsend was born in Callan, Kilkenny in 1867 - but her father was John.

Oh dear...THE WHOLE HOUSE OF CARDS HAS FALLEN!

disappointing, but I wasn't, getting the "Irishness" I was looking for either, as claimed by Annie Townsend,
But as she is hiding somewhere in 1891, I think I'm looking for a similar sort of story.
Of course she could have just appeared from Ireland, who knows

A HUGE THANK YOU. Such good laborious detective work. :-D