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No Nyx. just been trying to find William Smith and already coming up to a .brick wall. I have found his marriage to Margaret Phipps, found them by verifying their children on GROBMD with the maiden name of Phipps so lucky there.

No Nyx. just been trying to find William Smith and already coming up to a .brick wall. I have found his marriage to Margaret Phipps, found them by verifying their children on GROBMD with the maiden name of Phipps so lucky there.

Thanks for the update John, I'm glad the cert has confirmed the Smith name, though I never envy anyone with a Smith search :-)

Hi NyX. I have now received the marriage certificate for Dorothy Margaret Osborne and Donald Small, widow and widower, married April 1944 but what has surprised me is that she couldn't have been a widow because her ex husband Clarence Frederick Osborne didn't die until Dec 1945 Worthing. The father was William Smith and the family lived in Southend on Sea, so this is the correct Dorothy but her daughter Margaret Osborne as my friend says it is, is actually was the Margaret Smith I found 1915 Rochford born out of wedlock. Thank you so much for all your help in finding the family , I now can now proceed down the Smith line hopefully. mind you if it's anything like my Lewis line I latched on to a William Lewis for 2 years before I found my correct family. Lewis and Smith are hard families to find.

Hi NyX. I have now received the marriage certificate for Dorothy Margaret Osborne and Donald Small, widow and widower, married April 1944 but what has surprised me is that she couldn't have been a widow because her ex husband Clarence Frederick Osborne didn't die until Dec 1945 Worthing. The father was William Smith and the family lived in Southend on Sea, so this is the correct Dorothy but her daughter Margaret Osborne as my friend says it is, is actually was the Margaret Smith I found 1915 Rochford born out of wedlock. Thank you so much for all your help in finding the family , I now can now proceed down the Smith line hopefully. mind you if it's anything like my Lewis line I latched on to a William Lewis for 2 years before I found my correct family. Lewis and Smith are hard families to find.

It's easy to lose the plot when so many have the same names!

I think this Ivy V Hooton (Clark) is daughter of James Clark but the Ivy Doris Clark also known as Osborne could be the daughter of Clarence Frederick Osborne and Alma Beatrice Clark, This Ivy D married Ronald Wren in Hove 1950 Looking at records Ronald Wren b 1929 Hove and died 2002 Hove , so Ronald wasn't married to Alma Beatrice as the gent on Ancestry had got, I thought surely not getting married at age of 96. Well it looks like Clarence Frederick Osborne went to live sometime in Hove Sussex area because that's where he died in Worthing. Feel I am going in a whirl trying to get to the bottom of Margaret Butcher (Lear) (my friends ) family. her mother Margaret's name being Smith and Osborne and unsure if she had any siblings

Sidetracking a bit but Alma Clark's mmn was Hards, she's been mistranscribed as Alman here

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census
354 Commercial Road Stepney E, Mile End Old Town, London & Middlesex, England

James Clark Head Married Male Oilman Manager 37 1874 Shadwell London
Catherine Clark Wife Married Female - 36 1875 City London
James Clark Son - Male - 12 1899 Whitechapel London
Cissie Clark Daughter - Female - 9 1902 Peckham London
Leslie Clark Son - Male - 7 1904 Lambeth London
Alman Clark Daughter - Female - 5 1906 Lambeth London

Interesting to note that her sister Cissie May married in Rochford so they evidently moved there at some point between 1911 and 20s.

Brother Leslie died Rochford 1929

there was another child to James and Catherine Clark after 1911, she is with her father in 1939, she later married Hooton

Clark Household (2 People)
249 Balls Pond Road , Islington, London, England

Ivy V Hooton (Clark) 31 May 1912 Female Asst To Above Udd Single 145 2
James Clark 11 Apr 1874 Male Shop Keeper - Oilshop Widowed 145 1

It's certainly an interesting family lol :-)

Now I have found the following. Alma M Osborne b Sept 1926 Rochford mother Clark. Then I found. Robert T Osborne b Sept 1926 Rochford mother Smith. Olive A Osborne b Sept 1932 Rochford. mother Smith. So I wonder, if Clarence was having an affair, are these all his children, think we have established that Margaret with the name of Osborne could be in fact Margaret Smith, If so he didn't marry Dorothy Margaret Smith until 3 yrs after she was born. Oh what a web has been weaved

Rita and Ruby appear to be twins born 1930, Ruby's birth also reg in both surnames.

Jean c born 1935 also both names

Ivy was reg Clark but Rita was reg in both surnames

Births Dec 1930 (>99%)
Clark Rita V Clark Rochford 4a 1140
Osborne Rita V Clark Rochford 4a 1140

married as Rita V Osborne to Leslie G Greenfield

ah well, that is interesting, because on the 1939 Alma's entry is updated with marriage to Gosper 1951, but what I hadn't noticed is that Ivy D Osborne was updated to surname Wren.

Looking at that marriage in 1950 she is listed as both Clark and Osborne

Marriages Sep 1950 (>99%)

Clark Ivy D Wren Hove 5h 681
Osborne Ivy D Wren Hove 5h 681
WREN Ronald Osborne Hove 5h 681
WREN Ronald Clark Hove

Hi Nyx. I have found a death for Clarence Frederick Osborne, it was 1945 Worthing, you may recall that Dorothy Margaret Osborne didn't marry Donald Small until 1944 presume that there could have been a divorce perhaps because Clarence Frederick Osborne was terminally ill, who knows. I decided to go on Ancestry and look in the Public Members trees and found the following which was extremely interesting. It was Clarence Frederick Osborne with a spouse Alma Beatrice Clarke, but I don't think they could have been married because Alma was only born in 1906 so if the same Clarence Frederick which I think it was, he married Dorothy Margaret Smith in 1919, making this Alma Clarke only 13 yrs old by then and I have found no marriage for her. According to the tree there were 7 children but on the tree it was written Private, then in 2002 Alma was with a Ronald Wren , gosh that made her 96 I couldn't believe it and there were 8 children listed yet again all Private. What I have done is contacted the gentleman who posted the family and his surname was Wren obviously to do with this Ronald Wren and asked if he may know anything about Clarence Frederick Osborne, will be interesting to hear the come back. Haven't looked up any Osborne children yey with mothers name of Clarke so will proceed with that. I wonder who parted between Clarence Frederick and Dorothy Margaret but we do know in 1935 on marriage of Charles Henry Butcher and Margaret Osborne , Dorothy was with Donald Small.

Yes it is,an addiction , I have got up in the middle of the night before now to look up someone. I think you must be right with the Clarence F Osborne and Dorothy Margaret Smith in 1919 and when they married her daughter Margaret took his name,

John, I find it less of a hobby, more of an addiction lol. I have gone as far as I can with my own tree (probably) so enjoy helping where I can with other people's :-)

If that is the case I will send for that when the marriage certificate comes back on 15th, next week and perhaps gives more into. The certificates I have sent for has never been for me, mostly for friends, so I do try and keep them to a minimum, that's why I come on here for help before I resort to send for them. Ancestry is a bit restricted.. I do this for a hobby now

That's why I think she was born with a different surname and Osborne was first married name rather than birth name .

I searched on freebmd using just Dorothy M born a couple of years either side of 1895 and why I thought she might be this one as the birth qtr matches the date given on death reg in 1977 for Dorothy M Small

Births Dec 1895 (>99%)
Smith Dorothy Margaret Rochford 4a 534

I have just been on GRO to order the marriage very for the Smalls. I went on the birth index and put in Dorothy Margaret Osborne fro 1894 taking her that's her who died ( as Dorothy M Small) 1977 and all that keeps coming up is Dorothy Margaret Osborne b 1894 Bedford , she was the only one.

I've been lucky as I had a lot of info to start with and many of mine show up on the LMA marriages and baptisms on Ancestry so I haven't had to spend too much.

The GRO offer on PDFs of births and deaths has been useful though, as it's a little bit cheaper and just confirmed a couple of loose ends.

Hopefully you will come across a bit more, and if I find anything I will add it here :-)