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Oh dear, I knew one had been referred to, but not that there were more.

Thanks for the heads up. O&O

David's previous threads about his Meredith family:

https://www.genesreunited.com.au/boards/board/living_relatives/thread/1370639

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/living_relatives/thread/1369720

https://www.genesreunited.co.za/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1370543

To determine whether the two Henrys were cousins of any degree, look at their fathers and find whether they were related

Your Henry’s parents were Samuel Driver Meredith and Mary Ann Cole, which I am sure you know

Hi every one. Can I start with thanking every one for all this effort. I am watching, but I cant relate this information to my grand father, Henry James Cole Meredith. Born 1865, died 1945. On times I had hoped there would be a connection, maybe cousins?
Without the help of Prickles I would have got nowhere.

Dave

Didn't actually marry until 1919!



Marriages Dec 1919


Little Louisa E Meredith Portsmouth 2b 1472
Meredith Henry Little Portsmouth 2b 1472

Only because it's Portsmouth -


married for less than one year (can't see marriage - Louisa's maiden name appears to be Bowyer)



1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census

14 Brookfield Road Kingston Portsmouth, Portsmouth, Hampshire, England


Henry Meredith Head Married Male 42 1869 Poplar London Riggers Labourer

Louisa Meredith Wife Married Female 43 1868 Portsmouth Hants None

Cyril Little Son Single Male 9 1902 Portsmouth Hants None

Possibly.....

??

Henry James Meredith in the London, England, Workhouse Admission and Discharge Records, 1764-1930
Name: Henry James Meredith
Record Type: Discharge
Discharge Date: 28 Apr 1875
Discharge Place: Hackney, Hackney, London, England

Not that it helps!

Hi AryllGran

Thank you again for your time.

I am going to take one last look to see if i can find Henry James on the 1901 census......

Then i am going to throw the towel in......and throw a wobbly!! :-|

:-D

Long shot -


Henry Meredith
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Henry Meredith
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Registration Year: 1902
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 35
Registration district: Dartford
Inferred County: Kent
Volume: 2a
Page: 416

There don't seem to have been any Lilians living in Horton Kirby in either 1871 or 1881.

(Yes, I agree with Horton Kirby.)

I had wondered if Lilian might have been born with a different surname, and her mother had later married a Couchman - but can't relate any Dartford Lilian births to any Couchman marriages.

Similarly, I can't see a Couchman marrying a Lilian - in case she had been a widow when she married Henry.

If you feel it's a trail worth following, it seems the Couchman / Meredith marriage cert might be the way to go.
a) make sure he's the right Henry.
b) find out more about Lilian.

The only death I can see for a Lilian Meredith of the right age is this one:

Lilian Helena Meredith
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Lilian Helena Meredith
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Registration Year: 1896
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 28
Registration district: Cardiff
Inferred County: Glamorganshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 154

And I can't see her anywhere else, either. Far too many dead ends.

No worries Dea.

It was worth a shot.

Sorry Prickles - I sent you on a wind goose chase.

In my hurry, I was following the Cranbrook Alice after 1891 not the Horton Kirby one and so led you astray :-( :-(

I still think that your Lilian's birth was down as Horton Kirby though on 1891.

Dea x

age is a bit out, but this may be Alice -


Deaths Jun 1896

Chapman Alice 25 Dartford 2a 263


Note - her son (on 1891 census) was with his grandmother in 1901

an extract from newspaper report on FMP -


Maidstone Journal and Kentish Advertiser 11 February 1893


A VIOLENT HUSBAND

Petty Sessions - Alfred Chapman, groom, of Farningham, was summoned by his wife Alice Chapman for using threats to her on January 4th and the latter asked to have defendant bound over to keep the peace. Had recently obtained an order for maintenance.

Oh oh.....That's the end of that then.

Thank you Choccy.

Think this is Alice Couchman marrying in 1887 -


Marriages Jun 1887

Chapman Alfred Dartford 2a 739
COUCHMAN Alice Dartford 2a 739




1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census


High Street, Farningham, Dartford, Kent, England


Alfred Clapman Head Married Male 25 1866 Darenth, Kent, England -

>>>Alice Clapman Wife Married Female 24 1867 Horton Kirby, Kent, England -

Charles S Clapman Son Single Male 3 1888 Horton Kirby, Kent, England

Charles H Smithers Lodger Single Male 22 1869 London, England Driver

Arthur White Lodger Single Male 24 1867 Brighton, Sussex, England Driver

Thank you for your post Dea.

I have been staring at the place of birth for Lilian on the 1891 census for ages.

Looking again.....i think you are right about it being Horton Kirby.

It states Antar Cuby on Ancestry. :-S :-D

Just something am having 'one of my feelings' about ??? But I have to go and sort out some lunch just now so thought someone might want to take a look?

It is a VERY long shot but this is the marriage we are looking at:



Marriages Sep 1889 (>99%)
ANCELL Thomas Portsea 2b 803 Scan available - click to view
Couchman Lilian Portsea 2b 803 Scan available - click to view
Meredith Henry James Portsea 2b 803 Scan available - click to view
Quaide Hannah Portsea 2b 803

I looked at the image of 1891 of Lilian as Meredith and believe that her birthplace was Horton Kirby (mis-spelt)

Parish History

HORTON, KIRBY (St. Mary), a parish, in the union of Dartford, hundred of Axton, Dartford, and Wilmington, lathe of Sutton-at-Hone, W. division of Kent, 4 miles (S. S. E.) from Dartford.
Horton Kirby and South Darenth is a civil parish in the Sevenoaks district of Kent.[1]


I couldn't find any trace of a Lilian Couchman before the marriage but have found an Alice born there at the right sort of time:

Name: Alice Couchman
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 4 Aug 1867
Christening Place: Horton-Kirby, Kent, England
Father: Thomas Couchman
Mother: Sarah Couchman
Search Photos: Search for 'Horton-Kirby' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection


This would be her birth reg:

Results:
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: Order:
COUCHMAN, ALICE WILDISH Order .................. NOT this one !!
GRO Reference: 1867 J Quarter in CRANBROOK UNION Volume 02A Page 593 Order

COUCHMAN, ALICE MITCHELL Order ****
GRO Reference: 1867 S Quarter in DARTFORD Volume 02A Page 347

It is a few years off but she 'may' have knocked a little off her age as she was actually older than her husband to be?


This is her with family on 1881:
1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
The Village, Horton-Kirby, Dartford, Kent, England

Learn more
Print View image Start free family tree
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
Thomas Couchman Head Married Male 46 1835 Horton Kirby, Kent, England Farm Serv Ag Lab
Transcription
Sarah Couchman Wife Married Female 41 1840 Darenth, Kent, England Farm Serv Ag Lab Wife
Transcription
Alice Couchman Daughter Single Female 14 1867 Horton Kirby, Kent, England Farm Serv Ag Lab Daur
Transcription
Frederick Couchman Son Single Male 10 1871 Horton Kirby, Kent, England Scholar
Transcription
Albert Couchman Son Single Male 7 1874 Horton Kirby, Kent, England Scholar
Transcription
Frank Couchman Son Single Male 4 1877 Horton Kirby, Kent, England -

I can follow her up until the 1881 as Alice and again from 1901 onward, back as Alice and unmarried but she is missing on 1891 !!

Could it be that 'Alice' was 'Lilian' ???

Dea x

P.S. Will come back to it later.

I don't seem to be able to get any further with that Meredith/Couchman marriage.

I can't find a birth for a Lilian Couchman......and i can't spot either of them on the 1901 census.

I need to chill and relax ;-)

I will pop back on here tomorrow.

:-)