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If John's death was the one in 1849 which I posted earlier, then Elizabeth born 1851 in Germany, wasn't his - unless her age is slightly "out "on the census.

Her marriage ?

Marriages Dec 1872 (>99%)
LEARMAN William York 9d 130
McDonald Margaret York 9d 130
Renneck Elizabeth York 9d 130 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
RICHARDSON William York 9d 130

And possible death ?? (Because I can't see her under either groom's surname in 1881 census.)

Deaths Mar 1881 (>99%)
RICHARDSON Elizabeth 29 York 9d 21

Really intresting that the Rennicks also appear to have ome from Germany. Maybe they knew the Caspers before or maybe they met after arrivibg in England. This tree and sub tree Rennicks) is getting bigger by the minute but its all great.

Hubbys on his way back from Germany now and we're planning a trip to York in the next few weeks. It'll be lovely to go to the addresses that the family once lived.

Thsnks again you wonderful people! :-D

The Rennick connection still fascinates me. Having seen a Kate Renick was a witness at the marriage of Mary Earnshaw nee Caspar, I wondered if she were a child of John and Margaret Rennick, especially as ArgyllGran had already found a Margaret Rennick in the same area of York that the Caspars moved to:

Census 1881 that ArgyllGran posted

Margret Rennick
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Margret Rennick
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relationship to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Frankfort (Prussian Nationality), Preußen
Civil Parish: York St Mary Castlegate<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street address: 122 Friargate<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Marital Status: Widow
Occupation: Street Musician
Registration district: York
Sub registration district: Bootham
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Neighbors:
Piece: 4718
Folio: 108
Page Number: 27
Household Members:
Name Age
Margret Rennick 60


I think this might be 'Kate''s baptism at Holy Trinity (like John Peter Caspar and Johann George Caspar)

Name Eve Catherine Rennick
Gender Female
Christening Date 16 Jun 1846
Christening Date (Original) 16 JUN 1846
Christening Place HOLY TRINITY,KINGSTON UPON HULL,YORK,ENGLAND
Father's Name John Rennick<<<
Mother's Name Margaret<<<

and the marriage of the same lady in the St Mary Castlegate area of York, where the Caspars moved to:

Name Paul Parkinson
Birth Date 1845
Age 29
Spouse's Name Catherine Eve Renwick<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse's Birth Date 1846
Spouse's Age 28
Event Date 1874
Event Place Saint Mary Castlegate, York, York, England
Father's Name Edmund Parkinson
Spouse's Father's Name John Renwick<<<<<<<<<

Kate in census 1871 with mother Margaret:

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Friargate Wilson Yard, St Mary, York, Yorkshire & Yorkshire (East Riding), England

Margaret Renick Head - Female - - - Germany

Kate Renick Daughter - Female 23 1848 - Yorkshire, England

Elizabeth Renick Daughter - Female 20 1851 - Germany

And just for the record - although we've wandered a long way from the Caspar family:

In 1891 Clarke is on board ship - captain of the "Providence".

In 1901 he has a third wife, Emily, and three children - Bertha 3, William 2, and Enid A, 7 months. All children born York.

Marriages Sep 1896 (>99%)
Day Clarke York 9d 41
Richardson Emily York 9d 41.

In 1911 he's on board ship on census night again - master of the keel boat "Industry". Emily and the children are at home at 51 Heslington Road, York.

Deaths Mar 1937 (>99%)
Day Clarke 83 York 9d 9

Thankyou thankyou for all this! Im going to spend a day typing this all up.

Regards

Cassie :-)

??

Marriages Sep 1885 (>99%)
Day Annie Poplar 1c 978
SPENCER John Poplar 1c 978

EDIT:

NO, that Annie is too old:

Annie Day
in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1932
Name: Annie Day
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 47
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1838
Marriage Date: 16 Jul 1885
Marriage Place: St Leonard St Mary, Bromley, Tower Hamlets, England
Spouse: John Spencer
Register Type: Parish Register

Kucinta posted Annie and Clark's marriage to show Annie's father's name.
Here's the marriage from Clark's point of view - father John;

Clark Day
in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
Name: Clark Day
Gender: Male
Age: 26
Birth Date: 1849
Marriage Date: 1875
Marriage Place: Saint Mary Castlegate, York, York, England
Father: John Day
Spouse: Anne Casper
FHL Film Number: 1068537
Reference ID: 2:2B2FVM5



Clark Day
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Clark Day
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: 1854
Relation: Son
Father's name: John Day
Mother's name: Frances Day
Gender: Male
Where born: Melbourne, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Melbourne
County/Island: Yorkshire
Registration district: Pocklington
Sub-registration district: Pocklington
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 77
Piece: 3559
Folio: 39
Page Number: 16
Household Members:
Name Age
John Day 40
Frances Day 45
Francis Day 8
Clark Day 7
William Hazel 17




Clarke Day
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Clarke Day
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relation: Mate
Gender: Male
Where born: Melbourne, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Allerton Bywater
Ecclesiastical parish: Allerton Bywater
Town: Allerton Bywater
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Tadcaster
Sub-registration district: Aberford
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Household schedule number: 210
Piece: 4737
Folio: 50
Page Number: 40
Household Members:
Name Age
William Day 22 - unmarried
Clarke Day 17 - unmarried.

ship name: "Frances of Melbourne".


Not married to Annie in 1881 ???

Clark Day
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Clark Day
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Eliza Day
Gender: Male
Where born: Melbourne, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Leeds
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street address: The Cora of Hull In R Aire Leeds
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Master (Barge)
Registration district: Leeds
Sub registration district: South East Leeds
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors:
Piece: 4511
Folio: 46
Page Number: 18
Household Members:
Name Age
Clark Day 27
Eliza Day 22 - Cleethorpes, Lincoln
Matthew Burdett 17


Clarke Day
in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
Name: Clarke Day
Gender: Male
Age: 29
Birth Date: 1854
Marriage Date: 1883
Marriage Place: St. Andrew, Great Grimsby, Lincoln, England
Father: John Day
Spouse: Eliza Burdett
FHL Film Number: 1542135
Reference ID: 2:3HKK4KF


So it looks as if Annie's marriage didn't last long.
Perhaps it was only rushed into because she was expecting Lillie.

In 1901 Annie Spencer is listed as Robert Cochrane's mother-in-law - so presumably that's Annie , formerly Day, nee Casper - and presumably a mistake re YOB.

I don't see her birth anywhere, regardless of date.


It's definitely the right family in 1901 -
here's the son Charles's birth:

COCHRANE, CHARLES mms DAY
GRO Reference: 1899 S Quarter in YORK Volume 09D Page 21

ArgyllGran

A Lilly Day b1876 appears on the 1881 census living with Peter and Catherine and shows as Grandaughter. So this will be Ann Casper and Clark Days daughter.

On 1861 census Annie Casper b1854 London is shown as Peter and Catherines daughter but I cant find a birth. On the 1901 you mention her being Annie Spencer b1861 but that is a 7yr difference in age - could it be a different Annie?

Regards
Cassie :-S

Thanks again everyone - this is fabulous!

We thought maybe William Thomas Casper (grandson) was the illegitimate child of Mary due to her age. Now I know this is right.


As for the births of the Casper children (other than Henry 1860) - they are a mystery for now.

The only Casper x Earnshaw marriage I can find is a Mary Ann CaspAr marrying Lewis Earnshaw 1864 in Colchester.

Cant thank everyone enough for all of the time taken to gather this info!
:-D :-D :-D

Annie also disappears for a while after her marriage to Clark Day in 1875.

Their daughter Lillie / Lillian was christened in York in Dec 1875, five months after the marriage, and Lillie married Robert Cochrane in York in 1894.

No sign of Annie, Clark, or Lillie in 1881 or 1891.

Lillian Day
in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
Name: Lillian Day
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 23 Dec 1894
Marriage Place: York, England
Father: Clarke Day
Spouse: Robert Sanderson Cochrane
FHL Film Number: 2093481


In 1901 Lillie's mother is listed as Annie Spencer, born Commercial Road, Whitechapel 1861, wife of [somebody] Spencer "in S Africa".

I don't see that marriage - maybe took place abroad.

Annie Spencer
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Annie Spencer
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation to Head: Mother-in-law
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Commercival Rd Whitesburne, London, England
Civil Parish: York
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Bishophill Senior with St Clement
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: York
Sub-registration district: Micklegate
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Neighbors:
Piece: 4442
Folio: 164
Page Number: 32
Household schedule number: 197
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert S Cochrane 29
Lillian Cochrane 24
Robert L Cochrane 5
Thomas L Cochrane 3
Charles Cochrane 1
Annie Spencer 40
Emily Cochrane 15 - niece, Newcastle

William Henry is with Peter and Catherine in 1871, 1881, and 1891.

He's probably the William Thomas, grandson, 1864, mentioned earlier by Cassie as one of the ones she couldn't find a birth for.


His death?

Deaths Mar 1949 (>99%)
Casper William H 86 York 2d 1068

Looks like Mary may have been the mother of an illegitimate child, William Henry Caspar:

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Name William Henry Casper
Gender Male
Christening Date 13 Sep 1863
Christening Date (Original) 13 SEP 1863
Christening Place SAINT MARY CASTLEGATE,YORK,YORK,ENGLAND
Mother's Name Mary Casper

Possible second marriage for Mary as her name on marriage is Earnshaw,but father is given as Peter Caspar:

Name: Mary Earnshaw
[Mary Casper]
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 17 Mar 1868
Marriage Place: Saint Mary Castlegate, York, York, England
Father: Peter Casper
Spouse: Thomas Holloway
FHL Film Number: 1068537
Reference ID: 2:2B2FRFD

EDIT: More detail on marriage:

First name(s) Mary
Last name Earnshaw
Age Of Full Age
Residence Friargate
Marriage year 1868
Marriage date 17 Mar 1868
Marriage place York, St Mary Castlegate
Spouse's first name(s) Thomas
Spouse's last name Holloway
Spouse's age Of Full Age
Spouse's residence Fulford
Father's first name(s) Peter
Father's last name Casper
Spouse's father's first name(s) George
Spouse's father's last name Holloway
County Yorkshire (Ainsty & City of York)
Country England
Archive reference PR Y/MC 144
Page 115

EDIT: Mary is described as a widow. Interestingly one of the witnesses is a Kate RENICK.

Marriage for Ann?


Ann Casper
mentioned in the record of Clark Day and Ann Casper
Name Clark Day
Birth Date 1854
Age 21
Spouse's Name Ann Casper<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse's Birth Date 1855
Spouse's Age 20
Event Date 14 Jul 1875
Event Place York, England
Spouse's Father's Name Peter Casper<<<<<<<<<<

More baptisms?

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Name John Peter Casper
Gender Male
Christening Date 14 Mar 1846
Christening Date (Original) 14 MAR 1846
Christening Place HOLY TRINITY,KINGSTON UPON HULL,YORK,ENGLAND
Father's Name Peter Casper
Mother's Name Catherine

Name Johann George Caspar
Gender Male
Christening Date 17 Sep 1848
Christening Date (Original) 17 SEP 1848
Christening Place HOLY TRINITY,KINGSTON UPON HULL,YORK,ENGLAND
Father's Name Peter Caspar
Mother's Name Catharina

Possible marriage for [John] Peter (did he knock a couple of years off his age as his bride was so much younger?)

Name Peter Casper<<<<<<<<<<<<
Birth Date 1849
Age 30
Spouse's Name Mary Jane Calverley
Spouse's Birth Date 1857
Spouse's Age 22
Event Date 1879
Event Place Saint Mary Castlegate, York, York, England
Father's Name Peter Casper<<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse's Father's Name James Calverley

and [Johann] George:

Name George Casper<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse's Name Mary Davis
Event Date 1870
Event Place Saint Mary Castlegate, York, York, England
Father's Name Peter Casper<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse's Father's Name Charles Davis

Thanks Kucinta. Yes Henry b1860 is my husbands g grandfather. The others are a mystery.

Thankyou :-S

Henry is the only one I found a baptism in Yorkshire for:

First name(s) Henry
Last name Casper
Birth year -
Baptism year 1860
Baptism date 02 Oct 1860
Baptism place York, St Mary Castlegate
Denomination Anglican
Father's first name(s) Peter
Mother's first name(s) Catherine
County Yorkshire (Ainsty & City of York)
Country England
Archive reference PR Y/MC 139
Page 165
Archive Borthwick Institute for Archives
Record set Yorkshire Baptisms

Their abode was Friargate and Peter is a labourer.

Given as the marriages took place in the parish of Holy Trinity in Hull, and nothing further is added to the address in the entry for participants in either marriage other than 33 Middle Street, I would assume Middle Street was in Hull.

Hi all

Just to throw another spaner in the works....

Various censuses show Peter and Catherine living with their children:
Mary Casper / Caspar b1844 Hull.(daughter)
Peter Casper / Caspar 1846 Hull. Died 1893 York (son)
George Casper / Caspar b1848 Hull. Died 1912 York (son)
HENRY CASPAR b1860 Hull (have birth cert for this one)
William Thomas Casper b1864 York Grandson
??Annie Casper / Caspar 1854 Middlesex????? (daughter)

Thing is I cant find births for Mary, Peter, George, and Annie??? Strange too that Annie (on 1861 census only) being born at other end of the country??

Family rumour has it that they took on someone elses children due someone being a drinker but I dont know if that is true. Henry b1860 is definately Peter and Catherines son as we have his birth cert (hes my hubbys ggrandfather). He was born some 18yrs after Peter and Catherine married!

Bit of a mystery.....

Cassie
:-S :-S

Wow thankyou all very much for all of this. I'll be typing this all up and passing it to my Caspers.

Can i just ask - is the address of 33 Middle Street where they all lived - is it in Hull? They end up living in York so I wasnt sure if Middle St was Hull or York?

As Hull is a big port I assume the Germans settled there initially when they sailed over to England.

Regards
Cassie :-)