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I have a birth cert in 1900 of Frederick Robert Knapp,at 71 Warley St with mother Charlotte Knapp formerly Rees, father was William Wallace Knapp but not living at this address. Charlotte Rees was married to John Thomas Pleasance in 1889 ( no marriage to Knapp) in 1901 Charlotte Placases (widow) was living at 34 Walter St with son Frederick (Robert Placases) and daughter Charlotte. Just found a Daisy Placanses on 1901 census living at 71 Warley St with a Mary Ann Rees.( Daisy is the daughter of Charlotte and looks like she is living with her grand mother. Could someone tell me how far these streets are apart ? Can't find a death for John Thomas Pleasance or any William Wallace Knapp anywhere nearby? Previous thread Missing Pleasance's.

hi
what was william wallace knapps
occupation

Looks like Poulterer ? on Fred;s birth cert

on goole map the streets are close togeather

walter street is off warley st

????


William Knapp
England and Wales Death Registration Index 1837-2007
Name William Knapp
Event Type Death
Registration Quarter Apr-May-Jun
Registration Year 1901
Registration District Bethnal Green
County London
Event Place Bethnal Green, London, England
Age (available after 1866) 36
Birth Year (Estimated) 1865
Volume 1C
Page 122
Line Number 317



Deaths Jun 1901 (>99%)
Knapp William 36 Bethnal G. 1c 122

I hadn't seen that.. Charlotte is widow in 1901 but has surname Pleasance(Placases) On Fred's marriage cert his father is Albert Pleasance (deceased) in 1925 ??

Could this be a possible death for John Thomas if he used his middle name (and surname slightly out):-

England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007

First name(s) Thomas J
Last name Pleasants
Gender Male
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1865
Age 45
Death quarter 3
Death year 1910
District West Ham
County Essex
Volume 4A
Page 100
Country England
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007

Kath. x

It looks like Frederick Roberts Knapp had a twin brother William Wallace Knapp, both baptized same day, May 6, 1900 to parents William Wallace & Charlotte, 47 Huntingdon St. Birthdate for both is April 15, 1900. Father is a porter.

There's also this one born 24 Aug. 1902. 4 Teale St. Father a meat porter.


David Edward Knapp
in the London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1917
Gender:
Male
Record Type:
Baptism
Baptism Date:
14 Sep 1902
Baptism Place:
Haggerston St Augustine, Hackney, England
Father:
William Wallace Knapp
Mother:
Charlotte Knapp

There's also this birth

KNAPP, WILLIAM WALLACE REES Order
GRO Reference: 1900 J Quarter in BETHNAL GREEN Volume 01C Page 213

Perhaps William wasn't free to marry?

Marriages Jun 1889 (>99%)
Blackmore Elizabeth St. Thomas 5b 145 Scan available - click to view
CHARD Robert St Thomas 5b 145 Scan available - click to view
Knapp William Wallace St. Thomas 5b 145 Scan available - click to view
Pannel Evelyn Jane St. Thomas 5b 145 Scan available - click to view

???

Birth:
KNAPP, ROSINA PHOEBE mms REES
GRO Reference: 1899 M Quarter in SHOREDITCH Volume 01C Page 85 Order


Death:

KNAPP, ROSINA PHOEBE 1
GRO Reference: 1900 S Quarter in BETHNAL GREEN Volume 01C Page 136

This looks like the William who married in 1889;

William W Knoph
in the 1891 Wales Census
Name: William W Knoph
[William W Knapp]
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Evelyn Jane Knoph
Gender: Male
Where born: Exmouth, Devon, England
Civil Parish: Eglwysilan
Ecclesiastical parish: St Martin
Town: Hendredenny
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration district: Pontypridd
Sub registration district: Eglwysilan
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors:
Piece: 4410
Folio: 12
Page Number: 19
Household Members:
Name Age
William W Knoph 23 - bricklayer
Evelyn Jane Knoph 22


In 1901 Evelyn is listed as married - but William's not there:

Evelyn J Knapp
in the 1901 Wales Census
Name: Evelyn J Knapp
Age in 1901: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Exmouth, Devon, England
Civil Parish: Eglwysilan
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration district: Pontypridd
Sub-registration district: Eglwysilan
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 114
Piece: 4999
Folio: 70
Page Number: 19
Household Members:
Name Age
Evelyn J Knapp 32
Evelyn E Knapp 8
Maud M Knapp 6


By 1911 she's widowed, and living in Essex;

Evelyn Knapp
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Evelyn Knapp
Age in 1911: 42
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Exmouth, Devonshire
Civil Parish: Grays Thurrock
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street address: 93 London Road, Grays
Marital Status: Widowed
Registration district: Orsett
Registration District Number: 192
Sub-registration district: Grays
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Household schedule number: 143
Piece: 9972
Household Members:
Name Age
Evelyn Knapp 42
Evelyn Knapp 18
Maud Knapp 16
Albert Errington 22

That William died 1910.
Probate gives his address as 93 London road, Grays, Essex - same as Evelyn in 1911:

William Wallace Knapp
in the England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966, 1973-1995
Name: William Wallace Knapp
Death Date: 17 Jul 1910
Death Place: Essex, England
Probate Date: 5 Oct 1910
Registry: London, England


Probate to George Lyndon Rhodes, outfitter.


So he's a different William - not the one who died 1901 in Bethnal Green and presumably was Charlotte's partner.

Rosina's baptism, father a porter, 41 Lee St., birthdate 29 Aug. 1898.


Rosina Phoebe Knapp
in the London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1917
Gender:
Female
Record Type:
Baptism
Baptism Date:
18 Dec 1898
Baptism Place:
Haggerston All Saints, Hackney, England
Father:
Wallace Knapp
Mother:
Charlotte Knapp

I expect you have this, Nicola:

Charlotte Pleasance
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Charlotte Pleasance
Age in 1911: 38
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Bethnal Green
Civil Parish: Shoreditch
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 19 Marlborough Road
Marital Status: Widowed
Years Married: 2
Estimated Marriage Year: 1909
Occupation: BOOT OWNER [ Boot sewer ]
Registration district: Shoreditch
Registration District Number: 16
Sub-registration district: Shoreditch North East
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Piece: 1378
Household Members:
Name Age

Charlotte Pleasance 38
Daisy Pleasance 15
Charlotte Eliza Pleasance 20
Albert Pleasance 5

In 1911, Charlotte states married 21 years, 8 children born, 3 living and 4 had died.

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: Order:
PLEASANCE, CHARLOTTE ELIZA REES Order
GRO Reference: 1888 J Quarter in BETHNAL GREEN Volume 01C Page 174

PLEASANCE, ELIZABETH SUSAN REES Order
GRO Reference: 1890 M Quarter in BETHNAL GREEN Volume 01C Page 228

PLEASANCE, ANNIE ROSINA REES Order
GRO Reference: 1892 M Quarter in BETHNAL GREEN Volume 01C Page 189

PLEASANCE, DAISY EMMA REES Order
GRO Reference: 1896 J Quarter in BETHNAL GREEN Volume 01C Page 225

????


PLEASANCE, THOMAS WALTER REES Order
GRO Reference: 1894 J Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 543


So either John Thomas died sometime between Daisy's conception and the first Knapp child or John Thomas and Charlotte went their own ways.

So John Thomas sometimes used his middle name so the death posted earlier is a possibility?


1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Gibraltar Walk, Bethnal Green, London & Middlesex, England

Thomas Pleasance Head Married Male 22 1869 London, Middlesex, England Printers Warehouseman
Charlotte Pleasance Wife Married Female 21 1870 London, Middlesex, England -
Charlotte Pleasance Daughter - Female 3 1888 London, Middlesex, England -
Elizabeth Pleasance Daughter - Female 1 1890 London, Middlesex, England -

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Ravenscroft Buildings, 179, Bethnal Green, London & Middlesex, England

Thomas Pleasance Head Married Male 32 1869 Bethnal Green, Middlesex, England Printer's Warehouseman
Elizabeth Pleasance Wife Married Female 28 1873 Wood Green, Middlesex, England -
Reuben Pleasance Son - Male 6 1895 Shoreditch, Middlesex, England -
Jane Pleasance Daughter - Female 7 1894 Shoreditch, Middlesex, England -
Lille Pleasance Daughter - Female 0 1901 Bethnal Green, Middlesex, England -


Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: Order:
PLEASANCE, LILY ELIZABETH CANNON Order
GRO Reference: 1900 S Quarter in BETHNAL GREEN Volume 01C Page 134

Hmm..same family in 1911 so that maybe isn't the right death posted for Thomas?


1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
22 St Jude ST, Islington, London & Middlesex, England

Thomas Pleasance Head Married Male 41 1870 London Bethnal Green Printers Warehouseman
Lizzie Pleasance Wife Married Female 39 1872 London Wood Green -
Lilly Pleasance Daughter - Female 11 1900 London Bethnal Green -
Lizzie Pleasance Daughter - Female 8 1903 London Bethnal Green -
Thomas Pleasance Son - Male 10 1901 London Bethnal Green -
George Pleasance Son - Male 5 1906 London Dalston -
Nellie Carner Stepdaughter Single Female 18 1893 London Haggerston Blouse Maker
Reuben Cartier Stepson Single Male 17 1894 London Haggerston Fur Mailer


Married 12 years, 7 children born, 4 living and 3 had died.


She seems to have been free to marry so perhaps it was Thomas who wasn't?

Deaths Mar 1897 (>99%)
CARLIER Reuben 29 Bethnal Green 1c 117

Elizabeth's first marriage

Marriages Dec 1892 (>99%)
Cannon Lizzie Bethnal Green 1c 463
Carlier Reuben Bethnal Green 1c 463

Not seeing her marriage to Thomas.


Elizabeth died in 1918 and Thomas is still living at the same address in 1939 with another wife, Ann.