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Hi agian
I ment I had seen a marriage from Family Search org But it didn’t state any Fathers on that one They some time do
At the moment I think it’s long winded to buy one When the Nottingham Library opens They have Marriage Transcript for marriage s ( Sutton in Ashfield)

As I managed to get one For Henry Marsh and Mary Jane Blackwell Brown 10 th July 1937
Charles Marsh Father and Samual Brown Father
Sometime ago
Thankyou again
Olive

I thought you meant you had seen the actual marriage cert - but your last post sounds as though you haven't.

The only way to know for sure if he named a father or not would be to buy a copy.

Thankyou for your reply

Sometimes on Family Search org it gives you detail But not with this Marriage
I did manage to find his mother and the other Marsh children most of them

Also his Grandfather and Grandmother
I have been catching up with Family History during lockdown
Bye for now and Thankyou agian
Olive

:-P

As Charles's marriage cert doesn't give his father's name either, as you say, then he definitely didn't know who his father was - and at least was honest enough not to invent a father's name as often happened.

Her sister Harriett also had illegitimate children - Well/Will and Frederick at least are hers:

Sarah Marsh
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Sarah Marsh
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: 1855
Relation: Daughter
Gender: Female
Where born: Sutton in Ashfield Nottinghamshire England
Civil Parish: Sutton in Ashfield
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England
Registration district: Mansfield
Sub-registration district: Sutton in Ashfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Household schedule number: 100
Piece: 3469
Folio: 59
Page Number: 18
Household Members:
Name Age
John Marsh 64
Mary Marsh 62
Charles Marsh 38
Henry Marsh 30
Harriett Marsh 26
Sarah Marsh 16
Frank Marsh 7 - grandson
Will Marsh 4 - grandson
Elizabeth Marsh 2 - grand-daughter
Rumanud Marsh 1/12 [ Frederick] - grandson


MARSH, ELIZABETH -
GRO Reference: 1868 D Quarter in MANSFIELD Volume 07B Page 72

MARSH, FREDERICK -
GRO Reference: 1871 J Quarter in MANSFIELD Volume 07B Page 67

MARSH, WELL -
GRO Reference: 1866 D Quarter in MANSFIELD Volume 07B Page 66

MARSH, FRANK -
GRO Reference: 1865 M Quarter in MANSFIELD Volume 07B Page 68


Harriett Lindley
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Harriett Lindley
Age: 34
Estimated birth year: abt 1847
Relationship to Head: Wife
Spouse: James Lindley
Gender: Female
Where born: Sutton In Ashfield, Nottinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: Sutton in Ashfield
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England
Street address: Workhouse Yard
Marital status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Seamer
Registration district: Mansfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors:
Piece: 3315
Folio: 64
Page Number: 26
Household Members:
Name Age
James Lindley 37
Harriett Lindley 34
William Lindley 14
Frederick Lindley 10
Annie Lindley 7
Fanny Lindley 6
John Lindley 3
James Lindley 1

She didn't marry James Lindley.
In 1891 and 1901 she's still with him, (and another batch of children) but calling herself Marsh:

Harriett Marsh
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Harriett Marsh
Gender: Female
Age: 46
Relationship: Wife
Birth Year: 1845
Spouse: James Lindley
Child: Annie Marsh
Fanny Marsh
James Marsh
Rebecca Marsh
Mary Marsh
Alfred Marsh
Birth Place: Sutton, Nottinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: Kirkby in Ashfield
Ecclesiastical parish: Kirkby
Residence Place: Kirkby in Ashfield, Kirkby in Ashfield, Nottinghamshire, England
Registration district: Basford
Sub registration district: Greasley
ED, Institution or Vessel: 15
Neighbors:
Piece: 2662
Folio: 13
Household Members:
Name Age
James Lindley 48
Harriett Marsh 46
Annie Marsh 18
Fanny Marsh 16
James Marsh 12
Rebecca Marsh 9
Mary Marsh 7
Alfred Marsh 4


Harriett Marsh
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Harriett Marsh
Age: 53
Estimated birth year: abt 1848
Relation to Head: Boarder
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Sutton in Ashfield, Nottinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: Sutton in Ashfield
Town: Sutton in Ashfield
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Mansfield
Sub-registration district: Sutton in Ashfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 05
Neighbors:
Piece: 3137
Folio: 118
Page Number: 20
Household schedule number: 136
Household Members:
Name Age
James Lindley 53
Harriett Marsh 53
James Marsh 21
Rebecca Marsh 18
Mary Marsh 17
Alfred Marsh 15
William Lindley 48


A later marriage:

Harriett Lindley
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name: Harriett Lindley
Registration Year: 1910
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration district: Nottingham
Inferred County: Nottinghamshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 644
Records on Page:
Name
Archer Haywood
Harriett Lindley

Thankyou for your reply
I realised that they must be illegitimate but wow so many
On census 1881 they are living with they grandparent s
I just thought some time it states on the Marriages re the Father unknown
But I Havnt been able to find it on his marriage to Sarah Ellen Scothern 1903
Thankyou
Olive

You already knew that Sarah's Marsh children were illegitimate, so you must have realised you couldn't hope to find fathers' names

She must have had very tolerant parents!

Especially as Sarah's sister Eliza seems to have had a couple of illegitimate children as well

So you want to find the father of the child born in 1881/2?

Have you looked for the child's birth?

easier to help if we have info laid out

Here's the 1891

Henry Haynes Head Married Male 30 1861 Colliery Labourer Sutton in Ashfield, Nottinghamshire, England
Sarah Haynes Wife Married Female 36 1855 - Sutton in Ashfield, Nottinghamshire, England
Mary A Marsh Daughter Single Female 18 1873 Hosiery Seamer Sutton in Ashfield, Nottinghamshire, England
William Marsh Son Single Male 16 1875 Colliery Labourer Sutton in Ashfield, Nottinghamshire, England
George Marsh Son - Male 13 1878 Scholar Sutton in Ashfield, Nottinghamshire, England
Charles Marsh Son - Male 11 1880 Scholar Sutton in Ashfield, Nottinghamshire, England
Frances Haynes Daughter - Female 9 1882 Scholar Sutton in Ashfield, Nottinghamshire, England
Edward Haynes Son - Male 7 1884 Scholar Sutton in Ashfield, Nottinghamshire, England
Emma Haynes Daughter - Female 2 1889 - Sutton in Ashfield, Nottinghamshire, England
Charles Bacon Lodger Single Male 19 1872 Colliery Labourer Sutton in Ashfield, Nottinghamshire, England



HAYNES, EMMA MARSH
GRO Reference: 1888 D Quarter in MANSFIELD Volume 07B Page 67

MARSH, MARY ANN -
GRO Reference: 1872 D Quarter in MANSFIELD Volume 07B Page 71

MARSH, CHARLES -
GRO Reference: 1880 M Quarter in MANSFIELD Volume 07B Page 85

Charles and his Marsh siblings were all illegitimate, so you'll not be able to find out who their fathers were

Marriages Sep 1887 (>99%)
HAYNES Henry Mansfield 7b 112
Marsh Sarah Mansfield 7b 112

Hi Everyone
I wonder if I have entered this on the right page ?
I am searching for Charles Marsh born 1881/2 Sutton in Ashfield Nottinghamshire (FATHER)
I may have found his Mother Sarah Marsh Born 1854 Sutton in Ashfield Nottinghamshire
On the 1891 Sarah has married Henry Haynes and Charles Marsh is on there Also with other children of Sarah Marsh also Haynes children
Sarah Marsh Mother and Father
= John M Marsh born 1806 - Mary Jackson 1807 both of Sutton in Ashfield Nottinghamshire
Charles Marsh married Sarah Ellen Scothern 1903 Mansfield / Sutton in Ashfield Nottinghamshire
Hope you can understand what I am on about
Thankyou
Olive

Yes, of course, you're quite right, GG.
I hadn't paid attention to Sam B's birth date.

Thankyou
Once again
Talk again soon
Olive

Olive - EDITH Pike married Sam Brown.

I think the 1938 marriage is Sam Bakewell Brown not his Father who looks to have died 1935.

Just read the 1939 Register
Thankyou
Also the deaths for Sam Brown 1935 Edith Brown 1936 Mansfield Nottinghamshire

So the picture is fitting together
Bye for now and Thankyou
Olive

Hi
Thankyou again
So if Sam Brown married again 1938
Maybe Ethel Brown nee Pike had died

I just carnt believe what you all have found

You state that Jean Marsh Keane has changed her name on Register 15.5.1963
Would it be an Electrole
Thankyou all again
Olive

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Deaths Mar 1935 (>99%)
Brown Sam 59 Mansfield 7b 118

Deaths Dec 1936 (>99%)
Brown Edith 55 Mansfield 7b 103

AG - is that marriage for Sam Bakewell Brown - Gertrude is about his age - rather than for Sam Senior (or am i missing something?


Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Dec 1900 (>99%)
Town Gertrude Elizabeth Mansfield 7b 121

Whoever completed the form appears to have Mary Jane's Year of birth wrong

Marsh Household (5 People)
13 West End , Sutton-in-Ashfield U.D., Nottinghamshire, England

FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) DOB SEX OCCUPATION MARITAL STATUS SCHEDULE SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER
Mary Jane Marsh 13 Jul 1915 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 234 2
Henry Marsh 11 Apr 1911 Male Coal Hewer (Heavy Worker) Below Married 234 1
Jean Keane (Marsh) 01 Dec 1937 Female Under School Age Single 234 3
Douglas Marsh 08 Mar 1939 Male Under School Age Single 234 4
Doreen Smith (Marsh) 31 Dec 1937 Female Under School Age Single 254 5
Ref: RG101/6241C/025/16 Letter Code: RNQL

Jean's change of name noted on register 15.5.1963 - not necessarily the date of marriage, but rather the date the change was notified.

So is that a second marriage for Sam ??

Marriages Sep 1938 (>99%)
Brown Sam B Town Mansfield 7b 256
Town Gertrude E Brown Mansfield 7b 256

Looks like Evelyn died young

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Deaths Jun 1914 (>99%)
Brown Evelyn B 2 Mansfield 7b 111

1939 Register - ignore the "Bram" - a bad transcription of Brown !!

Brown (Bram) Household (2 People)
3 Willowlndyr Lane , Sutton-in-Ashfield U.D., Nottinghamshire, England

FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) DOB SEX OCCUPATION MARITAL STATUS SCHEDULE SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER
Sam B Brown (Bram) 07 Aug 1904 Male Coal Hewer Married 190 1
Gertrude E Bram 12 Nov 1900 Female House Wife Married 190 2

same address but separate listing - Venice becomes King at some point, no dates on forms

3 Willowlndyr Lane , Sutton-in-Ashfield U.D., Nottinghamshire, England

FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) DOB SEX OCCUPATION MARITAL STATUS SCHEDULE SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER
Venice B King (Brown) 26 Apr 1908 Female Hosiery Mender Single 191 1
Mabel E Bram 07 Sep 1917 Female Hosiery Seemer Single 191 2