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Phillip(Philip) Scott

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Philip Report 23 Dec 2018 19:56

I am looking for any information on the above. He appears on my Father,s (Squire Scott) birth certificate Barton on Irwell August 1911. He was reputed to have travelled to India to buy cottons & silks for shops or garment makers in the North of England.
My Grandmother Mabel Spooner is well documented but I can find no evidence that my Grandfather had a birth, marriage or death certificate. Mabel said " Do not enquire after him , you will learn nothing good"

This leads to conjecture about another family perhaps.
Passenger lists indicate a Mr P Scott leaving Liverpool in 1911 for Bombay accompanied by a Mrs Scott and child.
Thats all I know .Perhaps someone has a clue for me

Philip Scott


Dea Report 23 Dec 2018 20:41

Any help??

Marriage: 29 Aug 1936 All Hallows, Bispham, Lancashire, England
Squire Scott - 25, Chartered Accountant, Bachelor, 25 Delphine Avenue
Audrey Marian Lucas - 24, Spinster, 212 Bispham Rd.
Groom's Father: Philip Scott, deceased Gentleman
Bride's Father: Frederick Lucas, deceased, Engineer
Witness: Cyril Nuttall; P. Scott; Emily Lucas
Married by Banns by: Henry Ward, Rector
Register: Marriages 1931 - 1939, Page 87, Entry 173
Source: Original Register

Dea x


ErikaH Report 23 Dec 2018 20:42

His occupation should be recorded on the birth cert


malyon Report 23 Dec 2018 20:44

do you know when he was born


Dea Report 23 Dec 2018 20:52

Scott Household (5 People) 40 Shirley Crescent , Blackpool C.B., Lancashire, England
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First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Occupation
Squire Scott 05 Aug 1911 ???
Audrey M Scott 04 Jun 1912 Unpaid Domestic Duties
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Pamela Dawn Pullen (Scott) 27 Jul 1939 Under School Age
Pamela Dawn Pullen (Scott) 27 Jul 1939 Under School Age

Dea x


ArgyllGran Report 23 Dec 2018 21:05

I thought this sounded familiar.

Here's Philip's previous thread on this family, with a lot of research already done - leading to the summary in the OP above:

The suggestion on that other thread is that Philip Scott was born c1883 in Co Tipperary (but doubt cast on that, and that's probably a different Philip Scott.)


Dea Report 23 Dec 2018 21:10

Yes - I have just found that also................................ Did you follow that up Philip?

Thanks AG - I do not like to waste my time finding what has already been found before!!

Dea x


ArgyllGran Report 23 Dec 2018 21:47

Just a note re the daughter Alice -

with the benefit of the GRO website now, I think we can confirm that this is her birth, as suggested by Chris on the other thread:

GRO Reference: 1910 M Quarter in BIRKENHEAD Volume 08A Page 510

The birth previously suggested (and also doubted ) on the other thread in Toxteth Park in 1909 is definitely not the right one:

GRO Reference: 1909 J Quarter in TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 160

and therefore Mabel's daughter is not the one who married George Fearon.

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 23 Dec 2018 22:35

Well here is Mabel on the 1911 census

Name: Mabel Scott
Age in 1911: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883
Relation to Head: Visitor
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Laindon, Essex, England
Civil Parish: Urmston
Search Photos: Search for 'Urmston' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 3 Lyme Grove Urmston
Marital Status: Married
Registration district: Barton upon Irwell
Registration District Number: 463
Sub-registration district: Stretford
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Piece: 23630
Household Members:
Name Age
George Clark 29
Mary Eliza Clark 30
Korace Neville Clark 5
Mabel Scott 28
Alice Scott 1 born Liverpool
Says married 2 years but none found

Alice was reg as spooner


Philip Report 24 Dec 2018 10:41

Thanks for your interest
When the 1911 census was published I fully expected Phillip to be at this address
but he was absent. I think has Philip has left her and baby Alice in a lodging house and cleared off to india? or died


ArgyllGran Report 24 Dec 2018 12:19

He didn't die before the 1911 census - at least not in England/Wales.

Mabel's listed as a visitor, not a lodger, so if accurate, she may just have happened to be at that address on the night of 2nd April, and not necessarily living there.

They didn't marry. Mabel's just calling herself Scott for the sake of respectability.
She must have already been pregnant with your father.

I don't think the wife and female child travelling with P Scott (no ages given) to Bombay in 1911 are Mabel and Alice - can't prove it, but it doesn't feel right.
For a start, where's your father? (Hypothetical question.)


Philip Report 24 Dec 2018 15:03

Thanks for your renewed interest
I have not been able to unravel this mystery in the last few years so any help in
re visiting the evidence to see if there is a way through all the subterfuge, is more than welcome

Visitor or Lodger
On my father,s birth certificate on 5/8/1911 This the address listed so I can presume it was a lengthy stay.

Mabel Scott or Spooner. I am sure you are right about this. Its respectability that counts
This is a red herring unless P. Scott has another family and he is evading his new responsibilities by sailing for India.
I have tried to check Bombay arrivals and India BMD with no luck

I must check out Alice Spooner b. Birkenhead 1910
Thanks again


ErikaH Report 24 Dec 2018 16:12

What concrete evidence is there that this man went to India?

Who registered your father's birth?


ErikaH Report 24 Dec 2018 16:45

P Scott who travelled to Bengal in October 1911 was Scottish, as were his wife and child (age less than one year). His occupation was 'Manager'

One should always look at the image, where possible


Philip Report 24 Dec 2018 19:25

Mabel lived until 1951 and she told family members that Phillip went to India to purchase silks and cottons. It might have been a one off journey or it may have been a fiction.

I have checked the birth certificate and Squire's birth was recorded by Mabel Scott
He was born at Lyme Grove Urmston 5/08/1911 at the same address where his mother and sister lodged, as recorded on 1911 census.

I think my Grandfather was unreliable to say the least but strange I can find no reference to his death, reputed to be in 1911, which is why I had assumed he had gone to India. Dangerous to make assumptions.

Mabel knew the answer to these questions but she never said anything . Sad really!
Any observations you have would be most welcome.


ErikaH Report 24 Dec 2018 19:35

Unfortunately, Mabel took the truth to her grave and it's unlikely that you'll ever get the answer. Sad, but realistic.

Merry Christmas

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 26 Dec 2018 12:13

It may just be he deserted her as she said don't ask about him you will hear no good
as you stated on your other thread

Would have thought if she knew he had died she would have said that


ArgyllGran Report 26 Dec 2018 12:25

Re Alice - you'll need the birth cert to find out if she's the right one (though it looks very probable).
You can get a PDF copy from GRO website for £6.

There's no sign of a matching Alice Spooner in 1911 census - so she must be Alice Scott.

She may have been born at the end of 1909, but not registered until 1910.


Dea Report 26 Dec 2018 12:35

Nice to see that someone is still alive after Christmas - I have been feeling lonely !

I have been trying to follow this Philip Scott but have been having difficulty:

GRO Reference: 1884 J Quarter in HASLINGDEN Volume 08E Page 142

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
12, Far Back Pleasant Street, Haslingden, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James Scott Head Single Male 37 1864 Cotton Spinnes Haslingden, Lancashire, England
Philip Scott Nephew Single Male 17 1884 Cotton Spinnes Haslingden, Lancashire, England

Record Transcription: ...................... the name is SCOTT !!!!
1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
(?21 Bk.)Pleasant Street, Haslingden, Lancashire, England

Mary Leah Head Widow Female 50 1841 - Co. Mayo, Ireland
James Leah Son Single Male 24 1867 Spinner Lancashire, England
Phillip Leah Grandson Single Male 6 1885 - Lancashire, England

GRO shows:
GRO Reference: 1884 J Quarter in HASLINGDEN Volume 08E Page 142
mmname given as Scott on here but if illigitimate it is usually left blank. This implies to me that it was a 'Mr. Scott' married to a 'Miss Scott' ?

Probably no connection but I would like to be sure.....

Dea x

Marked As Answer Marked as Answered


ErikaH Report 26 Dec 2018 14:39

Lancs BMD site also shows MMN as Scott

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1884
Surname Forename(s) Mother's Maiden Name Sub-District Registers At Reference
SCOTT Philip SCOTT Haslingden Preston HAS/37/56