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Hi I have another family who have gone missing in 1881 I'm hoping another pair of eyes might help

James Sylvester Carlan Manchester1845-1891 married Elizabeth Purcell Cheshire in 1873 Nantwich Cheshire
they had James Sylvester 1874-1897 Chorlton Lancashire
Mary Ellen 1875
Elizabeth Ann 1877 Chorlton
Maria
Beatrice 1888 Manchester
I've got 1891 James in workhouse and Elizabeth with 2 children
Not sure if Mary Ellen and Maria are the same person so hoping the 1881 census would prove one way or the other
that's if we can find the 1881 census
Thank you

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
CARLAN, ELIZABETH ANN PURCELL
GRO Reference: 1877 D Quarter in CHORLTON Volume 08C Page 800

No births for a Mary Ellen or Maria

Ah Maria was born 1881

1891 census
Marrie Castan
[Maria Carlan]
Gender: Female
Age: 10
Relationship: Visitor
Birth Year: 1881
Birth Place: Gordon, Lancashire, England
[Gorton, Lancashire, England]
Civil Parish: Coppenhall Monks
Residence Place: Crewe, Coppenhall Monks, Cheshire, England
Sub Registration District: Crewe
ED, Institution or Vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2850
Folio: 65
Household Members:
Name Age
John Parcell 31
Emma L Parcell 31
Florence E Parcell 5
Earnest J S Parcell 9/12
Marrie Castan 10
Barry Proctor 23
Harry Godfrey 24
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Source Citation
The National Archives of the UK (TNA); Kew, Surrey, England; Class: RG12; Piece: 2850; Folio: 65; Page: 26
Source Information

It’s Purcell family not Parcell

Ancestry suggests she is this one

View Liverpool, England, Catholic Baptisms, 1741-1916
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Report issue
Name: Maria Helena Carlan
Age: 0
Birth Date: 1 Dec 1881
Baptism Date: 7 Jan 1882
Baptism Place: Our Lady of Reconciliation de La Salette, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Search Photos: Search for 'Liverpool' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Father: Edwardi Carlan
Mother: Annae Lawde

Not picking up any birth though

Maybe getting the marriage cert would help with who she names as father

Maria Carlan
Registration Year: 1899
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Chorlton
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8c
Page: 1347
Records on Page:
Name
Maria Carlan
John William Ramsbottom


Ahh she names her father as James

View Manchester, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1930
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Name: Maria Carlan
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 19
Event Type: Marriage
Birth Year: abt 1880
Marriage Date: 30 Sep 1899
Marriage Place: West Gorton, All Saints, Lancashire, England
Parish as it Appears: All Saints, Gorton
Search Photos: Search for 'West Gorton, All Saints' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Father: James Carlan
Spouse: John William Ramsbottom
Reference Number: GB127.M434/1/2/2


James carlan deceased occ shoemaker

She has three sisters living with her

View 1901 England Census
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Name: John W Ramsbottom
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1878
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Maria Ramsbottom
Birth Place: Gorton, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: South Manchester
Search Photos: Search for 'South Manchester' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Ecclesiastical parish: Gorton All Saints
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Chorlton
Sub-registration district: Ardwick
ED, institution, or vessel: 092
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3687
Folio: 11
Page Number: 14
Household schedule number: 93
Household Members:
Name Age
John W Ramsbottom 23
Maria Ramsbottom 21
Harold Ramsbottom 1
Elizabeth Carlon 23
Mary J Carlon 21
Beatrice Carlon 12


Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
CARLAN, BEATRICE PURCELL
GRO Reference: 1888 D Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 264

However this is noted on the censuse

1 Contribution
Name
Mary J Ramsbottom rather than Mary J Carlon
Added an alternative name.
No birth records for Mary J Carlon/Carlan. John William Ramsbottom had a sister named Mary Jane who was born 1880
Submitted by: oharawayne on 06/04/2011

Elizabeth
Last name Carlan
Sex Female
Age 24
Birth year 1878
Marital status Single
Year 1902
Date 27 Sep 1902
Place Gorton West, All Saints
Spouse's first name(s) Paul
Spouse's last name Duggan
Spouse's sex Male
Spouse's age 27
Spouse's birth year 1875
Spouse's marital status Single
Father's first name(s) James Sylvester
Father's last name Carlan
Spouse's father's first name(s) Joseph Henry
Spouse's father's last name Duggan
Town Manchester
County Lancashire
Country England
Register type Marriage
Record set England, Greater Manchester Marriages 1570-1936
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Collections from England, Great Britain
Index (c) IRI. Used by permission of FamilySearch Intl

Beatice Carlan
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 19
Event Type: Marriage
Birth Year: abt 1888
Marriage Date: 6 Apr 1907
Marriage Place: West Gorton, St Mark, Lancashire, England
Parish as it Appears: Gorton, St Mark
Search Photos: Search for 'West Gorton, St Mark' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Father: James Sylvester Carlan
Spouse: Foster Hornby
Reference Number: GB127.M433/1/2/5
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Source Information
Ancestry.com. Manchester, England, Church of England Marriages an

Just not picking them up on the 1881 census

Several trees have the with a Mary Ellen born Salford 1875

However she isn’t their daughter

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
CARLAN, MARY ELLEN ORMANDY
GRO Reference: 1875 M Quarter in SALFORD Volume 08D Page 135


They obviously didn’t buy the cert,!

Thank you for all that I have most of it If Maria was born 1880 she would have been 19 when married which is ok but still not found a birth their is one in Sheffield? 1884 which would make her 15 when married
This is why I wanted the 1881 census to see how many children they had and their ages
The marriage is right the tree that corrected the name on census is a relation but she hasn't got them in 1881

Thank you for trying

Found mention of James in 1887 but can't find them in 1881!

NOTICE.— James Sylvester Carlan is no longer authorised to transact or receive money on behalf of the Mutual Sick Benefit Association. Chief office, 73, Bridge-street. By order

07 February 1887 - Manchester Evening News - Manchester, Lancashire, England


Afraid that's all it says :-S :-S

A tree on ancestry has this as Maria's second marriage.



England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005



First name(s) MARIA
Last name RAMSBOTTOM
Marriage quarter 3
Marriage year 1914
Registration month -

MarriageFinder ™


MARIA RAMSBOTTOM married one of these people

Thomas M Macdonald
Spouse's last name Macdonald
District Prestwich
District number -
County Lancashire


This as her baptism.



Name
Maria Anna Carlon
Gender
Female
Baptism Date
12 Apr 1884
Baptism Place
St. Vincent of Paul, Sheffield, York, England
Father
Jacobi Carlon
Mother
Elizabeth Purcell
FHL Film Number
1941826
Household Members

NameAge
NameElizabeth Purcell
NameJacobi Carlon
NameMaria Anna Carlon

and her death.

Death
11.09.1967 • Manchester, England, United Kingdom


There is also a photo of her.

??? another version of the baptism.

Yorkshire Baptisms

First name(s) Maria Anna
Last name Carlon
Birth year 1884
Birth date 12 Apr 1884
Baptism year 1884
Baptism date 12 Apr 1884
Baptism place Sheffield, St Vincent
Father's first name(s) Jacobi
Mother's first name(s) Elizabeth Purcell
Denomination Roman Catholic
County Yorkshire (West Riding)
Country England
Page 168
Record set Yorkshire Baptisms

Deaths Sep 1967 (>99%)
Mcdonald Maria 87 Manchester 10e 336

So birth 1880, right enough.

Carlon, Maria Anna (of ~, born 1884-04-12).
Baptised April 12, 1884, by Joannes J Myers at St Vincents, Sheffield Centre.
Parents name(s) are Elizabeth Purcell & Jacobi ().
Note: Sine ceremoniis in periculo mortis.
Godparents: ~ ~ Ellenora Carlon :Page No 168 :Reg No

Not to sure about the birth That is the one I've seen but that means she would have been15 when she married and her fathers name is James Sylvester Carlan I think this person has gone for this birth because the mothers name is Elizabeth Purcell

That about the sick pay is good so we have his address for 1888
Why would they stop his pay ? he died in 1891

Thank you for your help

It doesn't say they stopped his sick pay.

It sounds as if he had been their treasurer , or in a similar position of trust, and had either resigned or been sacked.

Or maybe some sort of insurance agent, going house to house to collect money??

??

MARY ANN
Last name CARLON
Birth year 1880
Birth quarter 4
Registration month -
Mother's maiden name -
District Sheffield
County Yorkshire
Country England
Volume 9C
Page 428



CARLON, MARY ANN CORNAN
GRO Reference: 1880 D Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 428


EDIT No possibly the daughter of these two.

Marriages Dec 1877 (>99%)
>>CARLIN Bernard Sheffield 9c 773 Scan available - click to view
CONNELLY John Sheffield 9c 773 Scan available - click to view
>>CORNAN Sarah Ann Sheffield 9c 773 Scan available - click to view
Stanton Catherine Sheffield 9c 773