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Henry Charles Smith born in Nayland Suffolk

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 18 Jan 2020 12:29

If the man who died in 1912 is the PROVEN connection of the OP's colleague, the one with father William is totally irrelevant as far as can be deduced from available online records

Maddie

Maddie Report 18 Jan 2020 12:44

for what is worth all of the ancestry hints for the 1912 death all point to the ann marriage

Maddie

Maddie Report 18 Jan 2020 13:15

henry and charlotte had several children eg
Charles Henry Smith
Birth Date: 16 Mar 1867
Birth Place: Norwood
Registration Place: Adelaide, South Australia, Australia
Father: Henry Smith
Mother: Charlotte Walker
Page Number: 741
Volume Number: 33

and in each case father is named sas henry, no charles

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 18 Jan 2020 13:27

The headstone for the man who died in 1912 is on Ancestry and he is 100% the man who married Anne Sandwell.

Absolutely NO DOUBT

Ellen

Ellen Report 18 Jan 2020 13:30

This is the marriage details
Name
Charlotte Walker
Father's Name
William Walker
Spouse Name
Henry Smith
Spouse's Father's Name
William Smith
Marriage Date
18 Mar 1863
Marriage Place
Adelaide
Registration Place
Adelaide South Australia
Page number
320
Volume Number
53

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 18 Jan 2020 13:36

NO Charles in the name - so why did you add it?

And please tell us WHICH Henry your colleague is related to, as the man on that marriage record is NOT the one who died in1912

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 18 Jan 2020 13:40

It's very possible that Henry's birth wasn't registered, if it was before Sept 1837 - assuming it was in England.

The other question also remains -
why does your colleague think her ancestor (whichever Henry he was) was born in Nayland?

You say,
"My friend has him on her Ancestry Tree but only his father name no mother".

So who is on her tree? Henry of Nayland, or Henry who married Charlotte, or Henry who died in 1912?

Ellen

Ellen Report 18 Jan 2020 14:21

I just noticed I put Henry Charles & Charlotte's marriage as 18/3/1912 it should read 18/3/1863 sorry

Ellen

Ellen Report 18 Jan 2020 14:35

My friend has on her ancestry tree
Henry Charles Smith born 1840 Nayland Suffolk father William (as appeared on his death certificate when he ( Charles ) died 14/11/1912 at Glanville Adelaide.
He married Charlotte Walker 18/3/1863 at Adelaide she died 11/1/1906

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 18 Jan 2020 14:53

The man who died in 1912 DID NOT marry Charlotte Walker

BTW - he died on the 13th -NOT the 14th

PLEASE read all the info posted and evaluate it.

Maddie

Maddie Report 18 Jan 2020 15:09

????
Name: Charlotte Smith
Birth Year: abt 1842
Age: 64
Death Date: 11 Jan 1906
Death Place: Alberton
Residence Place: Cavenaghville Nr Balaklava
Registration Place: Port Adelaide, South Australia
Page Number: 9
Volume Number: 315

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 18 Jan 2020 16:40

On Ancestry there are two public trees with Henry Charles Smith .
One has him marrying Ann Sandwell (Lahne family tree, owner SueLahne).
The other says he married Charlotte Walker . Presumably this is your friend's tree - (Skevington family tree; owner marglittle).

He's also on some private trees, sometimes marrying Charlotte, sometimes Ann.

Some of the trees will undoubtedly just have copied from each other without having any documentary evidence.

The Charlotte tree claims he was born 1840, Nayland, Suffolk - "Unable to locate birth record". No proof offered.

There's lots of details about Henry and Charlotte's children, and Charlotte's parents, etc, so presumably that's OK - although there are no documents re the children's births.

But it shows his death as the 1912 death - which has been proved wrong. It was Ann's husband who died in 1912.


The other tree, which says he married Ann, doesn't have any birth details for him, other than "about 1840", which has come from the death record. It doesn't give any birthplace - which is as it should be without any record to back it up.
It does say his father was also named Henry Charles Smith, which is stated on his marriage cert.

The list of children is completely different on this tree to the list on the Charlotte tree, and is complete with birth records.
It also correctly has the 1912 death record.

So as already said, these are two different families.
Two different Henrys.

BUT-
We (and the tree owners) have no proof of where either of the two Henrys was born, nor of Charlotte's husband's death.


Re Ann's husband - and quoted on the "Ann" tree, along with later "In Memoriam" notices:

SMITH.--On the 13th November, at James-street, Glanville, Henry Charles, the dearly beloved husband of Annie Smith, leaving one son and three daughters to mourn their sad loss, aged 72 years. At rest.

SMITH.--THE FRIENDS of the late Mr. HENRY CHARLES SMITH, late Stevedore, are informed that his Remains will be removed from his late residence, James-street, Glanville, on THURSDAY, at 2.30 p.m., for interment in the Woodville Cemetery.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 18 Jan 2020 16:55

?? But it's a very common name .
And of course we have no idea of when Henry was born - i.e. - Charlotte's husband.


Henry Smith
in the Australia, Death Index, 1787-1985
Name: Henry Smith
Birth Year: abt 1837
Age: 58
Death Date: 09 Sep 1895
Death Place: North Adelaide
Residence Place: North Adelaide
Registration Place: Adelaide, South Australia
Page Number: 105
Volume Number: 229

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 18 Jan 2020 17:50

This might be Charlotte's death, rather than the 1906 one - unless your friend has a copy of the 1906 cert to see relationships given on it:

Australia, Death Index, 1787-1985
Death, Burial, Cemetery & Obituaries
Record information.
Name
Charlotte Smith
Spouse
Henry Smith <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Birth
abt 1845
Death
1907 North Adelaide, South Australia
Residence
North Adelaide


Charlotte Smith
in the Australia, Death Index, 1787-1985
Name: Charlotte Smith
Birth Year: abt 1845
Age: 62
Death Date: 19 Jul 1907
Death Place: North Adelaide
Residence Place: North Adelaide
Registration Place: Adelaide, South Australia
Page Number: 319
Volume Number: 326



Although -
Balaklava, where the 1906 death happened, is only about 16miles from Port Wakefield, where the youngest child was born in 1880.
But they could well have moved in the intervening 26 years.

Ellen

Ellen Report 19 Jan 2020 03:40

MARRIAGE RECORD Sth Aust Marriages 1842 - 1937

Married 18 Mar 1863 Registration -- 53 / 320

Henry Charles Smith b. 1838 ( age 25 ) in Wesleyan Chapel, Pirie St, Adelaide
Father ~ William Smith ( no occup )
TO
Charlotte Walker b. 1841 ( age 22 )
Father ~ William Walker ( no occup )
_______________________________________________

Ellen

Ellen Report 19 Jan 2020 03:59

Funeral Notice in The Express and Telegraph Wed 13 Nov 1912
SMITH The funeral of the late Mr Henry Charles Smith late Stevedore are informed that his remains will be removed from his late residence James Street Glanville on THURSDAY at 2.30pm for Interment in the Woodville Cemetery
This is the Henry Charles Smith married to Charlotte Walker

Ellen

Ellen Report 19 Jan 2020 04:08

Adelaide Cemeteries Authority - www.acsa.gov.sa

SMITH
Charlotte
12/01/1906
64 Yrs
Alberton, SA
Cheltenham Cemetery
Section J, Drive C, Path (#) 6(7), Site number 197S


b. 1842

SMITH
Henry Charles
14/11/1912
72 Yrs
Glanville, SA
Cheltenham Cemetery
Redeveloped location




Ellen

Ellen Report 19 Jan 2020 09:52

I just had a look at a headstone for Henry Charles Smith who was married to Annie Sandwell he died 13/11/1912. Annie died 17/8/1926 & a daughter Edith Rose Agnes died 31/10/1926 wife of C.G Smith all buried in Cheltenham Cemetery Adelaide

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 19 Jan 2020 12:54

All the above already posted, Ellen.

Is it possible to see Charlotte's headstone (if any) ? I mean the one who died in 1906.

As already posted, her residence at the time of death was Cavenaghville, nr Balaklava.
But she apparently died in Alberton, approx 90 miles away.

(On what site are you and Erika able to see Henry Charles's stone? I can't see it anywhere. Perhaps it's FMP, where I don't have a sub.
EDIT: Oh yes, it's on Ancestry .)

Ellen

Ellen Report 19 Jan 2020 14:24

I put in Cheltenham Cemetery then filled in the name & details of Charles Henry Smith died 1912 it came up as Billion Graves