Find Ancestors

Thank you so much I really do appreciate all your help

Sorry, made a mistake with Elizabeth's age on my post, it should be 28yrs. :-S

If you want a copy of the original 1866 census, follow the link below:-

https://archives.yvelines.fr/arkotheque/consult_fonds/fonds_seriel_resu_rech.php?ref_fonds=4

Click on Images (27images)
Go to page 13 of 27

Your family are numbers 348,349,and 350

Page 20 will give you a breakdown of who was living in and around the village There were indeed 451 people in total, the census was taken on 18th July 1866 That would make Catherine Elizabeth 6mths old at the time the census was taken. Wonder why they noted her down as being a 4mth old boy called Jules, strange?

There are some census records for certain parts of France - but not all - and Electoral Rolls for the Paris area 1930-32, on Ancestry.

Not the one Catherine found.



In 1866 there were only 451 people living in Conde-sur-Vesgre:

https://tinyurl.com/qov6gf8
(another dodgy automatic translation by Google)

Once again thank you . Are the french census on ancestry?

Death

MONAGHAN, CATHERINE ELIZABETH 85
GRO Reference: 1952 M Quarter in UCKFIELD Volume 05H Page 499


Catherine E Monaghan
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Catherine E Monaghan
Gender: Female
Marital status: Single
Birth Date: 17 Jan 1866 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Residence Year: 1939
Address: Enberhome Manor
Residence Place: East Grinstead, Sussex, England
Occupation: Childrens Nurse Retired
Schedule Number: 116
Sub Schedule Number: 5
Enumeration District: EJEC
Registration district: 74/3

Enberhome is a mistranscription of Imberhorne.

Photo here of Imberhorne Manor:
https://tinyurl.com/vn8hdnb

Le Shalaustere seems to have been part of the property making up La Colonie, as posted above.

(Found by Googling "Chalaustere".)

There's mention of it here - in footnotes 1 & 2, and also about halfway down, in the sentence beginning "En 1842 . . ."

https://tinyurl.com/u7tdhdh

It does look more like Phalaustere (or Phalanstere) in this document.

The french census is available free of charge for the regions that have got around to putting them on line.
Unfortunately there is not a general data base that you can do a look up so you have to know the town or village that you want to look at, then scrawl through each page to find the person of interest.
Luckily your family were living in a very small village with only 28 pages to look through. :-D

Oh you lot are absolutely amazing. I cant believe what you have found. Could I ask where you found the french census.
Thank you so so much xx

Young Jules must have died - he's not with his parents in 1871.

Found them on the 1866 French census and they are living Le Shalaustére:-

Jean (John) Monaghan aged 33, Irish Catholic

Elizabeth Conly (his wife) aged 28, Irish Catholic

Jules Monaghan (their son) aged 4mths, looks to be Francais (French)

John's occupation is noted as Jockey

I can't see another birth for this couple so I think that the child noted in 1866 census is certainly Catherine Elizabeth and there has been an error in noting her down.

Condé-sur-Vesgre is a commune in the Yvelines department in the Île-de-France region in north-central France.

[ie - a commune is a level of administrative division ]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cond%C3%A9-sur-Vesgre


Could this be where they were living ? La Colonie in Conde-sur-Vesgre:

https://tinyurl.com/yx7aln3t
[somewhat dodgy translation! ]

"Established according to the precepts of Charles Fourier , the phalanx "La Colonie" , in Condé-sur-Vesgre, in the Yvelines, continues to operate. A holiday place steeped in utopian socialism of the 19th century"

"It is a long building, built in 1848, as well as three more modest pavilions."

"It was in 1860 that the current structure was created. But the beginnings date back to 1832. Charles Fourier , one of the figures of utopian socialism, advocates the transformation of the world by life in autarky. Group together, isolate yourself and produce by sharing your talents, in phalansteries or familistries ... It was at this time that these organizations of community life emerged, around agricultural or industrial activity.

In Condé-sur-Vesgre, a first experience is then attempted by a rich doctor, follower of Fourier. But the phalanx of 400 hectares went bankrupt in 1836. In 1860, it was reborn, on barely a tenth of its original surface."


More here:
https://tinyurl.com/t3wbkr4

The birth posted by ArgyllGran is indeed the correct birth:-

Catherine Elisabeth Monaghan born 17th January 1866, Condé-sur-Vesgre, Yvelines.

Birth record gives
Father as John Monaghan, occupation Domestique anglais (English Domestic) aged 31yrs

Mother as Elizabeth Conly no profession aged 30yrs

Living (Looks to be) Le Phalanstère, which was a huge building used as a cooperative hotel to accommodate about 400 families.

Taking another look it could also be Le Shalaustére. This was my first thought but couldn't see anything about this place but it is noted on the census records so this one is more likely.

Thank you so much everyone

Absolutely no idea if this could be Kate or not - I don't have a sub to the site:

Monaghan Catherine Elisabeth
Birth: [don't know without sub ]
Place: Yvelines
Source: Yvelines Archives

https://tinyurl.com/rmbbqgd

Re Idlicote, where Ellen was born:


In 1868 The National Gazetteer of Great Britain and Ireland said of Idlicote

"IDLICOTE, a parish in the Brailes division of the hundred of Kington, county Warwick, 3 miles N. E. of Shipston-on-Stour, its post town. The parish, which is small, is wholly agricultural.

>>>>>It is a meet for the Warwick hounds. <<<<<<

There is no village, only a few farmhouses. Stone is quarried. The living is a rectory, in the diocese of Worcester, value £80. The church is dedicated to St. James. The parochial charities produce about £5 per annum. Idlicote House, the principal residence, is the seat of Captain H. K. P. Peach. It formerly belonged to the monks of Kenilworth, and after passing through several hands, was finally purchased by the present owner, who is lord of the manor and sole landowner."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idlicote


Perhaps John worked for Captain Peach at that time ???




Re Gaydon, where the family lived in 1881:

In 1870-72, John Marius Wilson's Imperial Gazetteer of England and Wales described Gaydon like this:
GAYDON, a parish in Southam district, Warwick; 3 miles NE of Kineton, and 4 WNW of Fenny-Compton r. station. Post town, Kineton, under Warwick. Acres, 1, 140. Real property, £1, 964. Pop., 292. Houses, 62. The manor belonged once to the bishops of Lichfield and Coventry; was afterwards long held by the Fishers; and passed to the Askells.

>>>>>>The parish is a meet for the Warwickshire hounds. <<<<<

The living is a p. curacy, annexed to the vicarage of Bishops-Itchington, in the diocese of Worcester. The church is later English.

https://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/8982



Maybe John's work was in connection with hunting?

thank you so much for everyones help. I will have to try and find what stables he worked for

Maybe Elizabeth's death ??

Bessie Monaghan
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Bessie Monaghan
Estimated birth year: abt 1842
Registration Year: 1904
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 62
Registration district: Hardingstone
Inferred County: Northamptonshire
Volume: 3b
Page: 21


And daughter Ellen ??

Ellen Elizabeth Monaghan
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Ellen Elizabeth Monaghan
Estimated birth year: abt 1874
Registration Year: 1893
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 19
Registration district: Northampton
Inferred County: Northamptonshire
Volume: 3b
Page: 23

Still in Warwickshire in 1891;

John Monaghan
in the 1891 England Census
Name: John Monaghan
Gender: Male
Age: 50
Relationship: Head
Birth Year: 1841
Spouse: Elisabeth Monaghan
Child: Ada Monaghan
Ellen Monaghan
Birth Place: Kildare, Ireland
Civil Parish: St Nicholas
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
Residence Place: Warwick, St Nicholas, Warwickshire, England
Registration district: Warwick
Sub registration district: Warwick
ED, Institution or Vessel: 27
Neighbors:
Piece: 2469
Folio: 63
Household Members:
Name Age
John Monaghan 50
Elisabeth Monaghan 47
Ada Monaghan 19
Ellen Monaghan 17


Possibly his death, in another horse-racing district:

John Monaghan
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: John Monaghan
Estimated birth year: abt 1834
Registration Year: 1897
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 63
Registration district: Towcester
Inferred County: Northamptonshire
Volume: 3b
Page: 13

it seems he was a stud groom

1881
Name: John Monaghan
Age: 45
Estimated birth year: abt 1836
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Elizabeth Monaghan
Gender: Male
Where born: Kildare, Ireland
Civil Parish: Gaydon
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Street address: Schedule 67
Marital status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Stud Groom -----

and 1871 and 1891

Kate in 1881:

Kate Monaghan
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Kate Monaghan
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1866
Relationship to Head: Lodger
Gender: Female
Where born: (Brit Subjt, France
Civil Parish: Leamington Priors
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Street address: Ascension Cottage New Street
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Apprentice To Dressmaker
Registration district: Warwick
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors:
Piece: 3094
Folio: 11
Page Number: 15
Household Members:
Name Age
Hugh Bruton 65
Elizabeth Bruton 47
Mary Bruton 19
Catherine Bruton 15
Ellen Bruton 13
James Bruton 9
Kate Monaghan 15
William Bennett 29
Matilda Bennett 26