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Robert Reginald Fleming 1864 ,,,1901

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Pauline

Pauline Report 28 Dec 2020 19:27

THANK YOU SO MUCH EVERYONE FAR MORE THAN I EXPECTED

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 27 Dec 2020 17:20

Harry's birth (John Harry) posted above.

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 27 Dec 2020 16:19

Charlotte says when she married that her 'deceased' father was Charles, a Printer/Compositor

Charles Barkshire Head Married Male 48 1813 Printer Compositor Reading, Berkshire, England
Mary Ann Barkshire Wife Married Female 39 1822 Dressmaker Weybridge, Surrey, England
Leah Ellen Barkshire Daughter Unmarried Female 11 1850 Scholar Clewer, Berkshire, England
Thomas W Barkshire Son Unmarried Male 11 1850 Scholar Clewer, Berkshire, England
Catherine Barkshire Daughter Unmarried Female 8 1853 Scholar Clewer, Berkshire, England
Louisa Barkshire Daughter Unmarried Female 4 1857 Scholar Reading, Berkshire, England
Jane Barkshire Daughter Unmarried Female 2 1859 Scholar Reading, Berkshire, England




Name: Charlotte Barkshire
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 8 Apr 1866
Baptism Place: Saint Giles,Reading,Berkshire,England
Father: Charles Barkshire
Mother: Mary Ann


1871
Name: Charlotte Barkshire
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: 1867
Relation: Inmate
Gender: Female
Where born: Chargeable to Reading
Reading And Wokingham Disri Court School
Civil Parish: Wargrave
Town: Wargrave
County/Island: Berkshire
Country: England
Registration District: Wokingham

???Brother

Name: Harry Barkshire
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: 1863
Relation: Inmate
Gender: Male
Where born: Chargeable to Reading
Civil Parish: Wargrave
Town: Wargrave
County/Island: Berkshire
Country: England
Registration District: Wokingham

Name: Charles Berkshire
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1812
Registration Year: 1868
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 56
Registration District: Reading

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 27 Dec 2020 15:57

The Barkshire child's birth doesn't fit with the child's age in 1891, or, indeed, in subsequent years. It's too early.

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 27 Dec 2020 15:22

No baptism record for Maud on FMP - under any surname

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 27 Dec 2020 14:47

Pauline -

do you have Robert Reginald 1884's birth cert, to confirm the details, such as father's name?

His brother Lionel was born in Reading in 1886, as already posted, and the family we have followed appears to be the correct one (I think!), even though RR's birthplace is given as Reading in the censuses, and not Christchurch. (1891 says Bournmouth.)

Robert Reginald Fleming
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Robert Reginald Fleming
Age in 1911: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1885
Relation to Head: Servant
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Christ Church, Hampshire, England
Civil Parish: Coulsdon
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street Address: Cane Hill, Lunatic Asylum Coulsdon, Surrey
Marital status: Single
Occupation: Asylum Attendant
Registration District: Croydon
Registration District Number: 39
Sub-registration District: Coulsdon
ED, institution, or vessel: 10-11
Piece: 3281



Your opening post is rather confusing, because the first sentence is about Robert Reginald (the son), with typo of 1864 as his YOB instead of 1884.
Then the rest of your post refers to RR's father, who married Charlotte, but didn't.
die in 1901.

" I am looking for the parents of Robert Reginald Fleming born 1864 Christchurch Bournmouth
His wife was Charlotte Birkshire
He died in 1901 and had a son with the same name"


However -
there is no birth of a Robert Reginald in 1864 or thereabouts
.
The Robert we've found, who married Charlotte, has no middle name at marriage or death, and he seems to have been born c1861, if the 1886 death is the correct one.
.
The only place he's called Robert Reginald is on his son Lionel's marriage cert in 1914 - but as he died when Lionel was only a few months old (assuming the 1886 death is the correct one), maybe Lionel wasn't sure of his father's correct name, and assumed it would be the same as his brother Robert.

Maud 1889 can't be Robert 1861's daughter, as born 3 years after his death, although she does seem to be Charlotte's.






Maddie

Maddie Report 27 Dec 2020 13:03

full name
Maud Lilian Dorothy
Last name Fleming
Age 40
Birth year 1890
Residence 37 Bath Rd
Death year 1930
Burial year 1930
Burial date 31 Jan 1930
Church Henley Rd Cemetery (Caversham)
Place Reading
County Berkshire

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 27 Dec 2020 12:34

Still on the trail of Maud Fleming (possibly registered as Barkshire) - she doesn't seem to be the daughter of either of Charlotte's brothers - John Henry (Harry) or Thomas William:

Charlotte Barkshire
in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: Charlotte Barkshire
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 8 Apr 1866
Baptism Place: Saint Giles,Reading,Berkshire,England
Father: Charles Barkshire
Mother: Mary Ann
FHL Film Number: 1040566


Charles Berkshire
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Charles Berkshire
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1812
Registration Year: 1868
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 56
Registration District: Reading
Inferred County: Berkshire
Volume: 2c
Page: 196


Charlotte Barkshire
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Charlotte Barkshire
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: 1867
Relation: Inmate
Gender: Female
Where born: Chargeable to Reading
Civil Parish: Wargrave
Town: Wargrave
County/Island: Berkshire
Country: England
Registration District: Wokingham
Sub-registration District: Wargrave
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household Schedule Number: 2 & 3
Piece: 1288
Folio: 7
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age

Harry Barkshire 8
Charlotte Barkshire 4
(and many others)

Address: Reading and Wokingham District School



BARKSHIRE, CHARLOTTE mmn PIKE
GRO Reference: 1866 S Quarter in READING Volume 02C Page 333

BARKSHIRE, JOHN HARRY mmn PIKE
GRO Reference: 1861 D Quarter in READING Volume 02C Page 327



Marriages Sep 1847 (>99%)
Berkshire Charles Strand 1 421
PIKE Mary Ann Strand 1 421



Harry John Barkshire
in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: Harry John Barkshire
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 8 Apr 1866
Baptism Place: Saint Giles,Reading,Berkshire,England
Father: Charles Barkshire
Mother: Mary Ann
FHL Film Number: 1040566

Maud Lilian 1889 can't be Harry's daughter - he married Isabella Triggs in Plymouth in Apr-Jun qr 1888.


Other siblings of Charlotte:

Charles Barkshire
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Charles Barkshire
Age: 48
Estimated Birth Year: 1813
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Ann Barkshire
Gender: Male
Where born: Reading, Berkshire, England
Civil Parish: Reading St Lawrence
Ecclesiastical parish: Oxford
Town: Reading
County/Island: Berkshire
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration District: Reading
Sub-registration District: St Lawrence
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 56
Piece: 747
Folio: 53
Page Number: 10
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Barkshire 48
Mary Ann Barkshire 39 - Weybridge, Surrey
Leah Ellen Barkshire 11
Thomas W Barkshire 16
Catherine Barkshire 8
Louisa Barkshire 4
Jane Barkshire 2
James Richardson 58

Her brother Thomas married Elizabeth Simmonds in Reading in 1877, so Maud's not his child either.



Thomas Barkshire
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Thomas Barkshire
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relationship to Head: Visitor
Gender: Male
Where born: Windsor, Berkshire, England
Civil Parish: Clewer
County/Island: Berkshire
Country: England
Street Address: Gas House Lane 2 Goswell Place
Marital status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Shoemaker
Registration District: Windsor
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors:
Piece: 1324
Folio: 83
Page Number: 35
Household Members:
Name Age
Edwin H. Charlton 29
Catherine E. Charlton 28
Elizabeth Charlton 5
Alice Charlton 3
Edwin Charlton 1
Henry Barkshire 20 - visitor, unmarried, journeyman
Charlotte Barkshire 15 - visitor, unmarried
Thomas Barkshire 30 - visitor, married, shoemaker
Elizabeth Barkshire 24 - visitor, married, shoemaker's wife

Elizabeth's death:

Elizabeth Barkshire
in the England, Select Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991
Name: Elizabeth Barkshire
Gender: Female
Age: 44
Birth Date: 1859
Death Date: 15 Nov 1903
Burial Date: 17 Nov 1903
Burial Place: Reading, England
FHL Film Number: 1849544
Reference ID: it 7 43425


Thomas Barkshire
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Thomas Barkshire
Age in 1911: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation to Head: Father
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Windsor, Berkshire, England
Civil Parish: Caterham
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street Address: 9 London Road, Up Caterham, Surrey
Marital status: Widowed
Occupation: Painter and Decorator
Registration District: Godstone
Registration District Number: 38
Sub-registration District: Godstone
ED, institution, or vessel: 03
Piece: 3246
Household Members:
Name Age
Edward Evans 25 - married 2 years
Gertrude Evans 21
Gertrude Evans 1
Thomas Barkshire 60 - widowed

Marriages Dec 1908 (>99%)
BARKSHIRE Gertrude Jane Godstone 2a 461
EVANS Edward George Godstone 2a 461



But possibly Maud Fleming isn't Maud Barkshire (though it does seem a coincidence), and her birth registration may just have disappeared like Robert 1861's

Maddie

Maddie Report 27 Dec 2020 11:44

his father

Robert
Last name Fleming
Age 72
Birth year 1817
Residence Friar St
Death year 1889
Burial year 1889
Burial date 06 Nov 1889
Church London Rd Cemetery (consecrated)
Place Reading
County Berkshire
Country England

mother
Sarah
Last name Fleming
Age 72
Birth year 1828
Residence 2 Friar St
Death year 1900
Burial year 1900
Burial date 04 Sep 1900
Church London Rd Cemetery (consecrated)
Place Reading
County Berkshire

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 27 Dec 2020 11:08

Robert’s burial date was 2nd December 1886. He is in London Road, Cemetery, Reading

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 26 Dec 2020 22:28

Possible birth of the child Maud L Fleming who is with Sarah in 1891,1901 and 1911???

BARKSHIRE, MAUD LILIAN HISSEY mmn PINFOLD
GRO Reference: 1889 S Quarter in READING Volume 02C Page 353


The child is listed as Charlotte's daughter in all the censuses - perhaps Charlotte adopted a niece ??

I don't see a Barkshire/Pinfold marriage anywhere.




Her death??

Deaths Mar 1930 (>99%)
Fleming Maud L D 40 Reading 2c 432



Maude Heming
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Maude Heming
Age in 1911: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1891
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Reading, Berkshire, England
Civil Parish: Reading
County/Island: Berkshire
Country: England
Street Address: 15 Connaught Rd, Reading
Marital status: Single
Occupation: Book Keeper Clerk
Registration District: Reading
Registration District Number: 121
Sub-registration District: St Mary
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Piece: 6565
Household Members:
Name Age
Charlotte Heming 41
Maude Heming 20

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 26 Dec 2020 18:48

Births of the other children in 1871 census - but I can't see Robert's:

FLEMING, SARAH mmn LINNELL
GRO Reference: 1864 M Quarter in READING Volume 02C Page 365

FLEMING, LUCY mmn SINNELL
GRO Reference: 1867 S Quarter in READING Volume 02C Page 337

FLEMING, WILLIAM mmn LINNELL
GRO Reference: 1870 D Quarter in READING Volume 02C Page 335

FLEMING, JAMES mmn SINNELL
GRO Reference: 1859 D Quarter in OF READING Volume 02C Page 327


FLEMING, FANNY mmn LINNELL
GRO Reference: 1858 J Quarter in READING Volume 02C Page 325

FLEMING, MARY mmn LENNELL
GRO Reference: 1856 J Quarter in READING Volume 02C Page 343

Pauline

Pauline Report 26 Dec 2020 18:39

Thats wonderful thank you

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 26 Dec 2020 18:36

That birth record Shirley posted for Lionel 1884 , with middle name Linnel, proves that the 1871 and 1881 censuses posted above are for the correct family.

The mother Sarah was born in Northamptonshire, per the censuses.

This is Sarah's marriage:

Marriages Sep 1854 (>99%)
Fleming Robert Daventry 3b 172
LINNELL Sarah Daventry 3b 172


Pauline

Pauline Report 26 Dec 2020 18:28

Sorry it seems not to be correct
My mistake thank you for putting me right

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 26 Dec 2020 18:25

Robert Fleming
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Robert Fleming
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relationship to Head: Son
Father: Robert Fleming
Mother: Sarah Fleming
Gender: Male
Where born: Reading, Berkshire, England
Civil Parish: Saint Lawrence
County/Island: Berkshire
Country: England
Street Address: 3 Friar St
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Coach Builder
Registration District: Reading
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors:
Piece: 1305
Folio: 64
Page Number: 1
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Fleming 63
Sarah Fleming 53
Fanny Fleming 22
Robert Fleming 19
Lucy Fleming 13
William Fleming 11
Emily Starey 17

safc

safc Report 26 Dec 2020 18:24

Record Transcription:
1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census

3, Friar Street, Reading St Lawrence, Reading, Berkshire, England

Sarah Fleming

Household Members
Members that resided in the household at the time of the census.
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Robert Fleming Head Married Male 63 1818 Corn Factor & Coach Builder Employing 15 Men & 3 Boys Wokingham, Berkshire, England
Sarah Fleming Wife Married Female 53 1828 - Daventry, Northamptonshire, England
Fanny Fleming Daughter Single Female 22 1859 Teacher Of Music Reading, Berkshire, England
Robert Fleming Son Single Male 19 1862 Coach Builder Reading, Berkshire, England
Lucy Fleming Daughter Single Female 13 1868 Scholar Reading, Berkshire, England
William Fleming Son Single Male 11 1870 Scholar Reading, Berkshire, England
Emily Starey Servant Single Female 17 1864 Servant (Dom) Reading, Berkshire, England

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 26 Dec 2020 18:24

As Charlotte was a widow in 1891:


??
Robert Fleming
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Robert Fleming
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Registration Year: 1886
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 25
Registration District: Reading
Inferred County: Berkshire
Volume: 2c
Page: 222

If that's his death, he has no middle name at either marriage or death.





EDIT:
I see now that safc has already posted this death, and it is definitely the right one.
EDIT AGAIN:
On closer inspection, I'm not sure what safc posted (26 Dec, at 18:18 ). It seems to be an amalgam of marriage, death, and 1871 census.

safc

safc Report 26 Dec 2020 18:21

????

Record Transcription:
1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Friar Street, St Lawrence, Reading, Berkshire, England

Sarah Fleming

Sarah Fleming

Household Members
Members that resided in the household at the time of the census.
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Robert Fleming Head - Male 53 1818 - Berkshire, England
Sarah Fleming Wife - Female 43 1828 - Northamptonshire, England
Mary Fleming Daughter - Female 14 1857 - Berkshire, England
Fanny Fleming Daughter - Female 12 1859 - Berkshire, England
James Fleming Son - Male 11 1860 - Berkshire, England
Robert Fleming Son - Male 9 1862 - Berkshire, England
Sarah Fleming Daughter - Female 7 1864 - Berkshire, England
Lucy Fleming Daughter - Female 3 1868 - Berkshire, England
William Fleming Son - Male 0 1871 - Berkshire, England
Hannah Butler Servant - Female 20 1851 - Hampshire, England
Eliza Cole Servant - Female 15 1856 - Northamptonshire, England

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 26 Dec 2020 18:18

Where did you find the info re Robert 1864's birth?

I don't see any record of it.

One tree on Ancestry has him, but with no proof of DOB or birthplace

It claims this is his burial:

London, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-1980
Name: Robert Fleming
Record Type: Death
Death Date: 26 Apr 1901
Death Place: Islington, Islington, England
Register Type Parish Register


However, that's in a list of deaths in the St John's Road Workhouse, and the man was aged 74, therefore born 1827, and therefore NOT the elusive Robert Reginald 1864.


The death on GRO website:
FLEMING, ROBERT 74
GRO Reference: 1901 J Quarter in ISLINGTON Volume 01B Page 122


I hope you're not assuming that info on someone's tree is necessarily correct!