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Could anyone with Ancestry sub please see if there is an image on there for this marriage:-

1838, Sunderland, George Gurney to Susanna Dixon.

Findmypast only have the transcription and I'd like to know if the fathers names are on the image.

Thanks, Kath. x

No image. Text only

So you would need to buy the cert for its info

Thanks Shirley.

I have another marriage for a George Gurney in 1850 to a Jane Dixon (again only the transcription) but on that it gives both fathers names.

I think it may be the same George marrying the sister of Susanna.

As you say, I'll have to buy the first marriage certificate and perhaps even the second one as well to see if addresses and occupations tell me whether it is the same man.

Thanks again.

Kath. x

You've found a death for Susanna, I presume?

And found all relevant censuses?

Yes, Erika, I've found a probable death for Susanna the year before the second marriage.

I have found Jane Gurney with children in Sunderland in the 1851 and 1871 census but I can't find any of the family in 1861. George is missing from the 1851 census but he was a mariner so that's to be expected.

I have now ordered both certificates so will have to wait and see.

Kath. x

Is the age right?

GURNEY, SUSANNA 32
GRO Reference: 1849 M Quarter in SUNDERLAND UNION Volume 24 Page 244

1851

Presumably, the 'nephew and niece' are the children of the woman's deceased sister

Jane Gurney Head Married Female 27 1824 Mariners Wife Morpeth, Northumberland, England
William Gurney Nephew Single Male 8 1843 Scholar Sunderland, Durham, England
Mary Ann Gurney Niece Single Female 5 1846 Scholar Sunderland, Durham, England
Henry Dixon Gurney Son Single Male 5 1846 Scholar Sunderland, Durham, England
Barbara Gurney Daughter Single Female 3 1848 Scholar Sunderland, Durham, England
John Gurney Son Single Male 1 1850 - Sunderland, Durham, England
Henry Dixon Visitor Married Male 29 1822 Ship Wright Morpeth, Northumberland, England

Unfortunately, can't locate any baptism info for any of the ones shown above

That's what I'm thinking Erika.

This is a bit of a complicated case.

I've been looking for my grandfather's family. His name was John George Anderson born 1870. I have his birth records from the Mint Street workhouse. Father's name George Anderson, mother Mary Ann Anderson, nee Dixon. However (and this is where is gets complicated) we knew his mother as Barbara. He was also baptised as John George Humble (parents George and Barbary) but same address as his birth record. This all happened in London but then they moved up north to Hartlepool.

The reason I am looking at the Gurney family is that on John George's father's death certificate the informant was John Gurney named as brother-in-law.

On the 1851 census there is a Barbara Gurney with cousin Mary Ann Gurney. I suspect Mary Ann could be the mother of my grandfather John George Anderson (using her mother's maiden name as her own) and that he was handed over to Barbara. George and Barbara had no other children so perhaps she couldn't have children.

There is a lot of supposition on our part but we've been trying to find a connection to anyone for about 20 years. George Anderson is just too common a name to make it easy.

However the John Gurney in the 1851 census has been tracked to the right address he gave as the informant on the death certificate so I now know there is some connection to this family.

Kath. x

No, I can't locate baptisms for them either. I was hoping to find one for Barbara Gurney but unfortunately not.

By the way - we know John George Humble and John George Anderson are the same person as in 1935 when my grandfather was trying to get a pension he wrote to the church in London where he was baptised. We wish we had a copy of what he wrote to them, but we do have the letter he got in reply. He was writing as Mr. Anderson, but obviously asking for his baptism certificate in the name of Humble because we have the actual certificate that was sent to him. There has always been this mystery about the Anderson/Humble name but I suspect that they did a moonlight flit at some point just after my grandfather was born as his father was unemployed at the time of the 1871 census so maybe they changed the name so as not to be found??

I suspect that letter to the church from my grandfather may have solved the problem for me.

Kath. x

from durham records on line

Marriages Sunderland 1838 George Gurney Moorgate Street


Marriages Sunderland 1838 Susanna Dixon Moorgate Street

you have to buy credits to view


Burials Sunderland 1849 Susanna Gurney abt 1817 Minorca

Thanks safc

That helps a lot as Minorca (on the burial record) is where Jane Gurney (nee Dixon) is living in 1851 so I think I am on the right track that Susanna and Jane are related.

It's so long since I did any proper research that I'd forgotten about Durham records online.

Kath. x

RAVAGES OF THE CHOLERA IN SUNDERLAND

" ...20th, in Minorca, aged 32, Mrs Susanna Gurney..."

Durham Chronicle 23 March 1849



DEATHS?

"...In Hodgkin street, aged 16 years. Mary Ann, daughter of Mr George Gurney mariner"

31 October 1862 - Durham Chronicle - Durham, Durham, England

Ohhh....alviegal - if that's the Mary Ann I've been thinking about then she can't have given birth to my grandfather and that means I am on completely the wrong track It was just that the names all fitted and I know the John Gurney at that address in 1851 was the one who was the informant on my grandfather's death certificate.

I will have to think again I think this is one mystery that we might not solve

Kath. x :-(

Do you know anything about the Father George Anderson/Humble? The reason why I ask is that I had an Ancestor who was illegitimate and he kept changing his surname from his mother's to his stepfather's throughout his life, very confusing! Just a thought.

Births of the children in 1851 census, just for our reference:

GURNEY, MARY ANN mmn DIXON
GRO Reference: 1845 D Quarter in SUNDERLAND UNION Volume 24 Page 315

That's the Mary Ann who died in 1862.

GURNEY, JOHN GEORGE mmn DIXON
GRO Reference: 1850 S Quarter in SUNDERLAND UNION Volume 24 Page 369




??? Henry ?

DIXON, GILBERT HENRY -
GRO Reference: 1845 S Quarter in SUNDERLAND UNION Volume 24 Page 314

This birth is mistranscribed as George Henry on Ancestry, although it's Gilbert Henry on GRO , FreeBMD, and the original Index.



DIXON, BARBARA -
GRO Reference: 1847 S Quarter in SUNDERLAND UNION Volume 24 Page 323

Belle - I don't know anything about George Anderson/Humble other that on the census he says he was born Newcastle/Sunderland and he died in 1910 in Hartlepool (john Gurney, informant on the death certificate. I can't find a marriage for him either. My grandfather was always John George Anderson except for on his baptism.

ArgyllGran - the birth for Barbra Dixon in 1847 was who I thought was the Barbara on the 1851 census as daughter of Jane or Susanna but I bought that birth certificate just this week and she is the illegitimate daughter of Ann Dixon

I think I'm in a pickle with this lot.

Kath. x

I noticed that in the 1871 Census John George is John George Humble

Name: John G Humble
Age: 7/12
Estimated Birth Year: 1870
Relation: Son
Gender: Male
Where born: Southwark Surrey England
Civil parish: Camberwell
Ecclesiastical parish: Camden
Town: Peckham
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: Peckham
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Household schedule number: 238
Piece: 731
Folio: 23
Page number: 39
Household Members Age Relationship
George Humble OCC Painter
33 Head
Mary Ann Humble
24 Wife
John G Humble 7/12 Son

Both George & Mary Ann were born Sunderland, Durham

Mary/Maria's YOB varies - and George's varies even more:

John G. Anderson
in the 1881 England Census
Name: John G. Anderson
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relationship to Head: Son
Father: George Anderson
Mother: Maria Anderson
Gender: Male
Where born: London, London, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Stranton
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street Address: Burbank St
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Registration District: Hartlepool
ED, institution, or vessel: 37
Neighbors:
Piece: 4910
Folio: 143
Page Number: 38
Household Members:
Name Age
George Anderson 30 - labourer, Newcastle
Maria Anderson 32 - Sunderland
John G. Anderson 10


Possibilities:


DIXON, MARY SINCLAIR
GRO Reference: 1850 M Quarter in SUNDERLAND UNION Volume 24 Page 280

DIXON, MARY ANN HETHERINGTON
GRO Reference: 1846 D Quarter in SUNDERLAND UNION Volume 24 Page 285

DIXON, MARY ANN STEPHENSON
GRO Reference: 1847 D Quarter in SUNDERLAND UNION Volume 24 Page 286

DIXON, MARY ANN CAMPBELL
GRO Reference: 1849 S Quarter in SUNDERLAND UNION Volume 24 Page 299

DIXON, MARY DIXON COWEY
GRO Reference: 1847 J Quarter in SUNDERLAND UNION Volume 24 Page 323

This the Baptism that Kath refers to

Name: John George Humble
Gender: Male
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 19 Feb 1871
Baptism Place: England, St George the Martyr, Southwark
Born 25 Aug 1870
Father:
George Humble. OCC Painter
Mother:
Barby Humble
Register Type: Parish Registers

And this is the other record (not actually a CofE record):

Anderson
in the London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1917
Name: Anderson
Gender: Male
Record Type: Birth
Birth Date: 25 Aug 1870
Birth Poor Law Union: St George the Martyr
Birth Place: St George the Martyr, Southwark, England
Father: G Anderson
Mother: Mary Ann Anderson
Register Type: Parish Registers