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Harry's birth? Update page 2

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Kuros Report 4 Oct 2021 18:19

I'm struggling with this one. I'm looking for the birth record of Harry Jolly. Family members - now deceased - said he was born on 29 November 1885. However, the 1911 census gives his birth year as 1888. He was born in Bungay, Suffolk. He died on 25th December 1940. His granddaughter remembers this because her granny, Alice, never wanted Christmas presents after this.

Harry married Alice Flatt in 1907 in Suffolk. We have that certificate which gives Harry's father as John Jolly. This gives his age as 22 which ties in with the 1885 birth year but he could have lied about that if he was really under age.

Harry joined the Hussars and was there from 1914 until 1920. I found one record which I cannot find again which said Harry was in the Northamptonshire Regiment before joining the Hussars. This is interesting because, on the 1911 census, Alice gives her place of birth as Corby, Northants. although on other censuses it's Chediston, Suffolk. In 1911 they are with their son, Harry Morris Jolly. We have found one medal card which gives his regimental numbers. I cannot find Harry on any census other than the 1911 but I do have him with Alice in 1939.

I'd be glad of any help, please, to find the elusive Harry's birth or anything else about him!



ArgyllGran Report 4 Oct 2021 18:30

for our reference:

Harry Jolly
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Harry Jolly
Age in 1911: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Bungay Nor, Suffolk, England
Civil Parish: Heston
Country: England
Street Address: 225 Staines Road, Ivydene, Hounslow
Occupation: Groom To Officer Soldier Servant
Registration District Number: 128
Sub-registration District: Isleworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Piece: 6826
Household Members:
Name Age
Harry Jolly 23
Alice Jolly 22
Morris Harry Jolly 9/12


Kuros Report 4 Oct 2021 18:31

I should have said the 1939 gives Harry's dob as 29 November 1885 and he was baptised with his brother on 29 September 1912.



ArgyllGran Report 4 Oct 2021 18:32

What was John Jolly's occupation?

[EDIT - NOT this one below. <<<<<<<<< I'll leave it for elimination.
This one's in Gissing, near Diss in 1911, with wife Lily.]

Henry J Jolly
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Henry J Jolly
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Father: John Jolly
Mother: Susanna Jolly
Birth Place: Burgate, Suffolk, England
Civil Parish: Fritton
Ecclesiastical parish: Fritton St Catherine
Town: Fritton
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England
Street Address:
Registration District: Depwade
Sub-registration District: Harleston
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Piece: 1860
Folio: 40
Page Number: 4
Household Schedule Number: 23
Household Members:
Name Age
John Jolly 36 - farm team-man, horse.
Susanna Jolly 35
Henry J Jolly 14 - cattle boy
Albert Jolly 12
George Jolly 10
John Jolly 8
Ethel J Jolly 5
Mable Jolly 1

A tree on Ancestry says that's him in 1901 - but it's not.


Kuros Report 4 Oct 2021 18:40

I think he was a teamster on a farm. My cousin, Harry's granddaughter, has the cert and I've asked her to check. I keep coming across that one above but, as you said, it's not the right family. People on Ancestry have confused this family with the correct one. Susanna appears as Luanna on some records. Harry had no siblings that we know of. Certainly none were ever mentioned by the family.


Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 4 Oct 2021 18:43

Dec 1940
Jolly Harry 54 Norwich Outer 4b 288

So age ties with 1939 age birth c1885/6

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 4 Oct 2021 19:08


Who was his brother ?

You say he was baptised with a brother in 1912 but then you say he had no siblings that you know of


ErikaH Report 4 Oct 2021 19:22

Have you considered that his name at birth was not Jolly?


ErikaH Report 4 Oct 2021 20:59

What was his address when he married?

What was his father’s occupation?


ArgyllGran Report 4 Oct 2021 21:24

Kuros said she thinks John (at least I think she meant John - maybe she meant Harry) was a teamster on a farm, but she will ask her cousin to check the cert.

Perhaps confusingly, if that's correct, that's the same occupation as the father of the wrong Henry/Harry Jolly.

Harry himself was also a teamster, per 1939.


malyon Report 4 Oct 2021 23:06

is this alice's birth cannot find a birth in corby where i live

Births Jun 1889
Flatt Alice Blything 4a 920

Chediston is in the blything area


Kuros Report 5 Oct 2021 00:14

Sorry, I meant Harry's and Alice's two children were baptised together. I'll get the rest of the cert information tomorrow. Thanks for your help.



Kuros Report 5 Oct 2021 11:51

Info from marriage cert.

July 13 1907 Register Office, Norwich.
Both aged 21

Harry Jolly, private in Hussars living at Cavalry Barracks, Norwich. Father John Jolly, general labourer.

Alice Flatt, domestic servant, living in Lowestoft. Father Thomas Flatt, farmer.

Witnesses, Harriet Flatt, Alice's mother and Edith ? Very difficult to decipher the last name.



Kuros Report 5 Oct 2021 12:00

It looks as thought the birth malyon found is correct. I checked the GRO and the mother's maiden name is Doughton and we know Alice's mother was Harriet Doughton.



ArgyllGran Report 5 Oct 2021 12:08

Sadly, the marriage cert doesn't give us any new useful info re Harry's origins.


Kuros Report 5 Oct 2021 13:24

No and he's missing without trace on the censuses too.



ErikaH Report 5 Oct 2021 13:44

I asked if you'd considered his being illegitimate...........................


Kuros Report 5 Oct 2021 13:54

I hadn't, no but it's always a possibility. I'll give it some thought.



ErikaH Report 5 Oct 2021 14:09

Bungay is in Wangford registration district


Kuros Report 5 Oct 2021 15:40

I've found a marriage between a John Jolly and Luannah Smith in Hartsmere in 1884. This would be about right for Harry's birth in 1885, if that's his correct year of birth. I'm going to look for them in the 1901 census.