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Name: George Cooper
Death Age: 39
Birth Year: abt 1842
Burial Date: 7 Jan 1881
Burial Place: Haydon, Dorset, England********same as Mabel Bessie

Mary Ann (Dorset) in 1861:

Mary Ann Green
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Mary Ann Green
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: 1849
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Charles Green
Mother's Name: Maria Green
Gender: Female
Where Born: Lydlinch, Dorset, England
Civil Parish: Lydlinch
County/Island: Dorset
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration District: Sturminster
Sub-registration District: Stalbridge
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 21
Piece: 1329
Folio: 17
Page Number: 4
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Green 36
Maria Green 42
Mary Ann Green 12
John Green 10
Mercy Green 7
Charles Green 3

I don't see her in 1871 - she's not with her family.

Can't see her after Mabel Bessie's baptism.

Unfortunately, I don't think that's the right couple after all.

George before marriage:

George Cooper
in the 1871 England Census
Name: George Cooper
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: 1851
Relation: Son
Gender: Male
Where born: Haydon, Dorset, England
Civil parish: Sherborne
Ecclesiastical parish: Salisbury
Town: Sherborne
County/Island: Dorset
Country: England
Registration district: Sherborne
Sub-registration district: Sherborne
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Household schedule number: 13
Piece: 2020
Folio: 48
Page number: 4
Household Members Age Relationship
Isaac Cooper 46 Head
Maria Cooper 41 Wife
George Cooper 20 Son
Dessey Cooper 16 Daughter
Sarah Cooper 12 Daughter


I don't see him in 1881 or later censuses, and George in Islington doesn't seem to appear until 1881.

However, this may well be Dorset George's death:

George Cooper
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: George Cooper
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Death Registration Place: Sherborne, Dorset, United Kingdom
Death Date: Mar 1881
Inferred Death Place: Dorset, United Kingdom
Volume: 5a
Page: 249

I've just checked the image of little Mabel Bessie's Baptism as it gives her father George's occupation as ' Guard'.

Thank you for this Belle. It certainly is worth a look.

I am willing to go in any direction now to try and find information.

Hopefully I will get into the attic over the weekend, and find the elusive certificates.

I know I have put them somewhere safe. Famous last words.

As ArgyllG found that birth for Mabel Bessie Cooper in 1880, I thought I'd look in Dorset for a Marriage and I have found the following Marriage (image on Ancestry), which could or could not be relevant but I think well worth investigating further!

Name: George Cooper
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: Full Age Bachelor
Residence at time of Marriage: ISLINGTON
Occupation: Railway Guard
Marriage Date: 30 Apr 1879
Marriage Place: Lydlinch, Dorset, England
Search Photos: Search for 'Lydlinch' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map:
View this parish
Father: Isaac Cooper, Game Keeper
Spouse: Mary Anne Green
Residence at Time of Marriage: Lydlinch, Dorset
Father: Charles Green, Labourer

Witnesses Charles Green & Bessie Cooper


Could this be their Marriage?

Thank you for your help so far. I will get up to the attic hopefully very soon.

I will not delete this thread. It has more questions than answers.

The thread will remain as long as you don’t delete it

When you find Sarah’s birth cert, please give us the full details - they may just help ;-)

OK back again.

Erika please bear with me. I have a folder with certificates etc, which seems to have gone missing. I fear I might have placed it in a box and it has been dumped back in the attic.

Names I have ordered more than one certificate over the years, only to find it is a duff one. Cooper is a common name, and there are a few in Islington. I only wish they had a really weird and wonderful name, it would be a lot easier. I fear the word of mouth information I have may well be a blind alley.

Erika, the mystery of the marriage continues, maybe they just lived together and she took his name.

ArgyllGran, thank you for this information.

May I just ask that this thread remain here, and as soon as I can find the birth certiificate, I will post again.

Thank you once again to you all for your input. As and when I fish out the box I will be back.

Best Wishes.

Wondering if this could be the 6th child mentioned in 1911:

COOPER, MABEL BESSIE mmn GREEN
GRO Reference: 1880 M Quarter in ISLINGTON Volume 01B Page 309


Mabel Bessie Cooper
in the Dorset, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Name: Mabel Bessie Cooper
Baptism Date: 2 Jun 1880
Baptism Place: Haydon, Dorset, England
Father: George Cooper
Mother: Mary Ann Cooper



Death:
COOPER, MABEL BESSIE 0
GRO Reference: 1880 J Quarter in SHERBORNE Volume 05A Page 237

Mabel Bessie Cooper
in the Dorset, England, Church of England Deaths and Burials, 1813-2010
Name: Mabel Bessie Cooper
Death Age: 4/12
Birth Year: abt 1880
Burial Date: 11 Jun 1880
Burial Place: Haydon, Dorset, England

There is NO record anywhere of a marriage between this George Cooper and Mary Ann Green

I appreciate that it costs money but the marriage certificate should give you George’s fathers name and you might then be able to sort out whether he was, in fact born in Jersey. There is a John George Cooper born in Jersey in about 1852. His fathers name was John Cooper , a sailor. (Ancestry)

As already asked, please give FULL details from Sarah's birth cert............

Thank you Erika, once again for your detailed input.

I needed a fresh eye on the information I thought I had. Although with name like Cooper it could have been any number of options.

Yes indeed you did help me earlier when I was enquiring about Sarah Ann, George's daughter.

As you suspected, I had a 'finger slip' and typed 1949 when it should have been 1849.

And I did assume it was that Mary Ann Green, but yet again it is a common name. And as LondonBelle has rechecked, it may not be so after all.

As you so rightly said, if the Census is to be believed, the marriage date would have been 1871, so that does not make sense either.

As for George Jnr. although improbable, but not impossible, it would have meant that Mary Ann had him when she was 14.

Thank you so much for the 1921 information. I know that to be Jessie, and I know who Dave Miller and Emma Randall are with regards to the family, but the others on the Census, I havent a clue.

On Jessie and Sarah's birth certificate, they both state George and Mary Ann nee Green, but it does not follow with the Census to my way of thinking.

On the other hand, who knows if the information on the Census is completely true.

I am still trying to fathom whether George was born in the Channel Isles or Holloway.

I am reluctant to order a marriage certificate for George and Mary Ann until I am more certain in my mind if these are the correct people.

Thank you for your time, it is appreciated. But I am acting on limited information from family members and wild guesses thrown in too.

I think I have realised that word of mouth is not always what it seems.

Thanks again.

Speculating - not something I would normally do

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census
4, Chapel Place, St Mary, Islington, London & Middlesex, England

Sarah Green Head Widow Female 36 1825 General dealer Not Known
Eliza Green Daughter - Female 14 1847 Domestic servant Not Known
Emma Green Daughter - Female 12 1849 Scholar Holloway, Middlesex, England
Annie Green Daughter - Female 9 1852 Scholar Holloway, Middlesex, England
Mary A Green Daughter - Female 6 1855 Scholar Holloway, Middlesex, England
James Green Son - Male 4 1857 Scholar Holloway, Middlesex, England
Catherine Green Daughter - Female 1 1860 - Holloway, Middlesex, England
James Carpenter Boarder Unmarried Male 35 1826 General dealer Islington, Middlesex, England
Robert Minton Nephew Married Male 25 1836 Plumber & painter Islington, Middlesex, England
Jane Minton Niece Married Female 18 1843 - Islington, Middlesex, England


AND/OR............(note address)....although birthplace is 'wrong'

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Campbell Road, Islington, London & Middlesex, England
William Ranwell Head - Male 34 1837 - Surrey, England
Annie Ranwell Wife - Female 34 1837 - Middlesex, England
William Ranwell Son - Male 15 1856 - Middlesex, England
George Ranwell Son - Male 13 1858 - Middlesex, England
Mary Ann Green Servant - Female 16 1855 - Surrey, England
Samuel Ranwell Visitor - Male 75 1796 - Kent, England
Caroline Tomkins Visitor - Female 39 1832 - Surrey, England

Please give full details from the birth cert you have for Sarah.........

An interesting snippet from the poster's earlier thread........

"Just read back again.

I am more interested in Sarah. But I thought that Wm Lewis would be an easier name to research.

Sarah's parents were Geo. Cooper and Mary Ann Green.

I have her birth certificate, along with that of her sister Jessie".

So she knew the MMN....................... :-0 :-0 :-0

RANDALL, EMMA COOPER
GRO Reference: 1904 J Quarter in ISLINGTON Volume 01B Page 373

Name: Emma Randall
Baptism Age: 13
Record Type: Baptism
Birth Date: 14 Mar 1904
Baptism Date: 19 Aug 1917
Baptism Place: St John, Highbury Park, Islington, England
Father: Joseph Randall........Soldier
Mother's name not recorded

Marriages Mar 1900 (>99%)
Cooper Emma Islington 1b 249
Randall Joseph Islington 1b 249

Name: Jessie Emily Cooper
Gender: Female
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 18 Apr 1886 (Born 28 March)
Baptism Place: St Mary, Islington, Islington, England
Father: George Cooper, Costermonger
Mother: Mary Ann Cooper
Register Type: Parish Register

1901 answers my question about ANNIE............note birth year

14, Pleasant Passage, Islington, London & Middlesex, England
George Cooper Head Married Male 52 1849 General dealer Holloway, Middlesex, England
Mary A Cooper Wife Married Female 46 1855 - Holloway, Middlesex, England
Jessie Cooper Daughter - Female 15 1886 - Holloway, Middlesex, England
Annie Cooper Daughter - Female 11 1890 - Holloway, Middlesex, England
Jacob Cook Boarder Widower Male 79 1822 - Lincoln, Lincolnshire, England

COOPER, ANNIE GREEN
GRO Reference: 1889 J Quarter in ISLINGTON Volume 01B Page 428