Find Ancestors

Jink, I am very appreciative of your “reading skill” and grateful for the assistance both ArgyllGran and yourself have kindly given me.

A summary of info I have thus far….


1841
Name Joseph Napper……
Age 20
Estimated Birth Year abt 1821
Gender Male
Where born Staffordshire, England
Civil parish Wolstanton
Hundred North Pirehill
County/Island Staffordshire
Country England
Street address:Occupation
Registration district Wolstanton
Sub-registration district Tunstall
Neighbors View others on page

Charles Napper 70
Mary Napper 65
William Napper 40
George Napper 35
James Napper 20
Joseph Napper 20
Eliza Napper 12

His parents…..

Name Charles Napper
Record Type Marriage
Residence Place Wolstanton
Marriage Date 6 Apr 1795
Marriage Place Wolstanton, St Margaret, Staffordshire, England
Spouse Mary Napper
Religion Anglican
Page number 36

Joseph’s marriage (I have a copy of the marriage certificate)

Name Joseph Knapper
Marriage Age 23
Record Type Marriage
Birth Date abt 1824
Residence Place Halmer End
Marriage Date 12 Jan 1847
Marriage Place Audley, St James the Great, Staffordshire, England
Father Charles Knapper
Spouse Sarah Plant
Religion Anglican
Page number 144

James living with the family 1851

Name James Knapper
Age 31
Estimated Birth Year abt 1820
Relation Brother

Joseph Knapper
27
Head
Sarah Knapper
5
Wife
Caroline Knapper
1
Daughter
Mary Ann Knapper
3
Daughter
Levi Knapper
2
Son
James Knapper 31 Brother

Last sighting of Joseph, at least that I can find

Name Joseph Knapper
Age 58
Estimated Birth Year abt 1823
Relationship to Head Head
Spouse Sarah Knapper
Gender Male
Where born Kidsgrove, Staffordshire, England
Civil parish Audley
County/Island Staffordshire
Country England
Street Address Halmer End
Marital Status Married
Occupation Coal Miner
Registration district Newcastle Under Lyme

Household members
Name Age
Joseph Knapper 58
Sarah Knapper 57
William Knapper 20
Reuben Knapper 15
Joseph Knapper 13


1891;Sarah head…widow!!

Name Sarah Knapper
Gender Female
Age 66
Relationship Head
Birth Year 1825
Child Reuben Knapper; Joseph Knapper
Birth Place Goldenhill, Staffordshire, England
Civil parish Audley
Residence Place Audley, Audley, Staffordshire, England
Registration district Newcastle Under Lyme
Sub registration district Audley

Name Age
Sarah Knapper 66
Reuben Knapper 25
Joseph Knapper 22

Last sighting of Sarah, again as far as I can see 1901

Name Sarah Knapper
Age 76
Estimated Birth Year abt 1825
Relation to Head Mother
Gender Female
Birth Place Audley, Staffordshire, England
Civil parish Audley
Ecclesiastical parish Audley St James
Town Miles Green
County/Island Staffordshire
Country England
Registration district Newcastle under Lyme

Name Age
Joseph Knapper 32
Fanny Knapper 25
Percy Knapper 5
Arthur W Knapper 4
Lillie Knapper 2
Sarah Knapper 76



And a number of GRO death images for various Joseph Kappers!!!

I shall now go and digest what info you’ve both given this morning…many thanks

Mistycat
RE 12 Apr 2024 23:52 entry


Yes, my bad, you are correct.
Should brush up on my reading skills perhaps

In order to try to narrow down the YOB issue with Joseph I looked at the following record

Staffordshire Parish Baptism records for Audley
Result : the following Knapper information 1821-1825 (FMP)

***Apr 1 1821 Joseph son of James and Jane Abode Talke Trade Collier

Not the Joseph married to Sarah, wrong father

*****************************************************************************************
Other Knapper records found during above search, if it is of use to you Mistycat included

May 11 1823 John son of James " " "

Dec 28 1823 William son Illeg Sarah " Spinster ****************************************************************************************
Marriage 1847 Joseph and Sarah
I accept you may have this information already but I posted it so I could refer back to more easily

First name(s) Joseph
Last name Knapper
Age 23

Father's first name(s) Charles
Father's last name Knapper

Spouse's first name(s) Sarah
Spouse's last name Plant
Spouse's age 21
Spouse's birth year 1826
Spouse's birth date 1826

Marriage year 1847
Marriage date 1847
Spouse's father's first name(s) William
Spouse's father's last name Plant

Residence Audley, Staffordshire, England
Marriage place Audley
Record set England Marriages 1538-1973
County Staffordshire
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Country England
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Collections from England, Great Britain
**************************************************************************************

Earliest Baptism period held on FMP for Kidsgrove, St Thomas
1839-1849

I am aware that this doesn't help identify Joseph's birth year, only to advise what was (not) available on FMP

***************************************************************************************
So, I posted what I found, as I toggled between the various sites and results which has now finally lead me to this post and for fear of stating the obvious and appearing to duplicate what is already known information

Burial for Joseph Dec 5th 1887 states on original entry abode was Halmer End

According to
Staffordshire Banns
Audley, St James the Great, Staffordshire, England

First name(s) Joseph
Last name Knapper
Country England
Banns year 1846
Archive reference D3483/1/15
Banns date 13 Dec 1846
Register type Banns
Residence Halmer End, Audley ************************
Page 70
Spouse's first name(s) Sarah
Spouse's last name Plant
Record set Staffordshire Banns
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Spouse's residence Halmer End, Audley
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Place Audley, St James the Great
Collections from England, Great Britain
Denomination Anglican

Does this help at all with the missing link as far as Joseph's death record is concerned??

Comments and observations please.

I think Jink found that burial on FMP.
It isn't on Ancestry, nor mentioned on any Ancestry tree, as far as I can see.


From Family Search:

Joseph Knapper
Vital • England, Staffordshire, Church Records, 1538-1944
Joseph Knapper, 5 Dec 1887; citing Burial, Audley, Staffordshire, England, United Kingdom, Staffordshire & Stoke on Trent Archive Service, Stafford; FHL microfilm 101,424,683.
Name Joseph Knapper
Age 60
Birth Date 1827
Death Date 1887
Father's Sex Male
Mother's Name Knapper
Mother's Sex Female
Spouse's Name Knapper
Event Type Burial
Event Date 5 Dec 1887
Event Place Audley, Staffordshire, England, United Kingdom
Affiliate Film Number GBPRS/STAFF/BUR3/050411

Unfortunately, there's no other identifying detail, such as a parent or spouse's name - at least, not on the transcription.

Note YOB 1827.

I wonder if it's a mistranscription of possibly bad handwriting?
FS says the original document can be viewed on FMP.

There's no other Joseph Knapper with a matching or close YOB in Audley on the 1881 census.

1881 says Joseph's YOB was 1821
1871 census says 1824.
1861 census says 1823.
1851 census says 1824.
His marriage record says 1824.

Jink20

“I don't see this Joseph on any of the previous results or have I missed him”

KNAPPER, JOSEPH 64
GRO Reference: 1887 D Quarter in NEWCASTLE UNDER LYME Volume 06B Page 49


This is him from the GRO image I posted at 20.59 11April…..he appears to be the closest match to my Joseph!!

Died 1st December 1887 Halmer End Audley, aged 64, coal miner, informant William son, present at death, Halmer End Audley…..

So that burial could be him….

Edit…can’t see the burial on Ancestry!!

Another FMP tree suggests

Burial
5 Dec 1887
Audley, St James The Great, Staffordshire, England

I saw a tree on FMP which suggested Joseph died in Oct 1887.
I searched the GRO which came back with 2 results

KNAPPER, JOSEPH 66
GRO Reference: 1887 M Quarter in WOLSTANTON Volume 06B Page 77

This is the Joseph -Birth Date 1821 Death Date 18 Feb 1887 Spouse Ann Knapper

I don't see this Joseph on any of the previous results or have I missed him........

KNAPPER, JOSEPH 64
GRO Reference: 1887 D Quarter in NEWCASTLE UNDER LYME Volume 06B Page 49

Re /death/burial above…

Name Joseph Knapper
Gender Male
Birth Date 1821
Death Date 18 Feb 1887
Cemetery Kidsgrove Cemetery
Burial or Cremation Place Kidsgrove, Newcastle-Under-Lyme Borough, Staffordshire, England
Has Bio? N
Spouse Ann Knapper

Now I’ve looked back on images purchased yesterday I had already ruled out this chap, died 18th February, residence…Long Row, Kidsgrove…occupation colliery bailiff….wife Ann

Thank you

Jink20 thank you

This is very interesting

Staffordshire Burials
Kidsgrove, St Thomas, Staffordshire, England

First name(s) Joseph
Last name Knapper
County Staffordshire
Country England
Birth year 1821
Archive reference D5539/1/20
Age 66
Register type Burial
Death year 1887
Page 59
Death date ? ? 1887
Record set Staffordshire Burials
Burial year 1887
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Burial date 21 Feb 1887

Definitely the right area….

ArgyllGran thank you…

A strong possibility from GRO

Sarah Knapper death, March 9th 1902, Black Lane, Audley, 68yrs, Bronchitis
Widow of Joseph Knapper, coal miner.
Informant Joseph Knapper son, address: something I can’t read on Black Lane, Audley.

On 1901 census when Sarah lived with her son the address was simply “Mile Green” for all the residences, as you say age could well be a mistake or possibly her son just didn’t know!! but I think to much “matches” for it not to be her? l shall look into Mile Green/Black Lane see if I can marry the two together…

Many thanks

1901 Census in which Sarah is living with son Joseph shows address as
Miles Green, Audley, Newcastle under Lyme, Staffordshire, England

GRO Death

KNAPPER, SARAH 68
GRO Reference: 1902 M Quarter in NEWCASTLE UNDER LYME Volume 06B Page 46

As per ArgyllGran entry 12 Apr 2024 00:53

That 1902 Wolstanton death is the one Mistycat has already ruled out - widow of George..

England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Wolstanton, Staffordshire, England


First name(s) Sarah
Last name Knapper
County Staffordshire
Volume 6B
Sex Female
Page 70
Birth year 1826
Country England
Age 76
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Death quarter 2
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Death year 1902
Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials
District Wolstanton
Collections from Great Britain, England


GRO result of above entry

KNAPPER, SARAH 76
GRO Reference: 1902 J Quarter in WOLSTANTON Volume 06B Page 70

Or

England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Wolstanton, Staffordshire, England

First name(s) Joseph
Last name Knapper
County Staffordshire
Volume 6B
Sex Male
Page 94
Birth year 1820
Country England


Age 69
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Death quarter 1
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Death year 1889
Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials
District Wolstanton
Collections from Great Britain, England

Or ( Estimated Birth Year abt 1823- Original post -11 Apr 2024 19:20)

Staffordshire Burials
Audley, St James the Great, Staffordshire, England

First name(s) Joseph
Last name Knapper
County Staffordshire
Country England
Birth year 1827
Archive reference D6149/1/10
Age 60
Register type -
Death year 1887
Page 87
Burial year 1887
Record set Staffordshire Burials
Burial date 05 Dec 1887
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Denomination Anglican
Subcategory Parish Burials
Place Audley, St James the Great
Collections from England, Great Britain

Identical to above

England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Wolstanton, Staffordshire, England

First name(s) Joseph
County Staffordshire
Last name Knapper
Volume 6B
Sex Male
Page 77
Birth year 1821
Country England
Age 66
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Death quarter 1
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Death year 1887
Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials
District Wolstanton
Collections from Great Britain, England

Joseph??


Staffordshire Burials
Kidsgrove, St Thomas, Staffordshire, England

First name(s) Joseph
Last name Knapper
County Staffordshire
Country England
Birth year 1821
Archive reference D5539/1/20
Age 66
Register type Burial
Death year 1887
Page 59
Death date ? ? 1887
Record set Staffordshire Burials
Burial year 1887
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Burial date 21 Feb 1887

Not in Newcastle RD - but right age ???

EDIT: No, I think this is the one you ruled out.

Sarah Knapper
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name Sarah Knapper
Age 76
Estimated Birth Year abt 1826
Registration Quarter Apr-May-Jun
Death Registration Place Wolstanton, Staffordshire, United Kingdom
Death Date Jun 1902
Inferred Death Place Staffordshire, United Kingdom
Volume 6b
Page 70


Or maybe this one if the informant got her age wrong:

Sarah Knapper
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name Sarah Knapper
Age 68
Estimated Birth Year abt 1834
Registration Quarter Jan-Feb-Mar
Death Registration Place Newcastle under Lyme, Staffordshire, United Kingdom
Death Date Mar 1902
Inferred Death Place Staffordshire, United Kingdom
Volume 6b
Page 46

Hi ErikaH

I’ve tried Knapper/Napper/Knaper and Naper for both

Just been going through GRO (purchasing) any Joseph Knappers I think cold be relevant and I think I may have a very close possible…

Died 1st December 1887 aged 64, coal miner, informant William son, present at death, Halmer End, Audley…..at least it’s the nearest I can find?

Only Sarah now….

There are a number of post-1881 deaths in Staffs for Joseph Knapper of approx ages…….have you eliminated all of them?