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Hi Kathryn,

Yes, I have Charles 1886 birth cert.

Charles James Anderson b 03/06/1886 Smarts Lane, Loughton. Father Charles George Anderson, bricklayers labourer, Mother Harriet E Anderson formerly Foster

I have just noticed that the Bertie I found in the 1901 is not the Bertie born 1883. I wonder if I can find the correct one?

Here he is

Name: Bertie Robert Anderson
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883
Year of Registration: 1883
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 0
District: Epping
County: Essex
Volume: 4a
Page: 114

Back on Track,

Looking for Charles George Anderson married Harriet Foster 06/01/1903 at the register office, Epping.

First known child Charles James Anderson b 03/06/1886 Smarts Road, Epping

1891 census shows Charles and Harriet at York Hill, Loughton with Charles born 1864 Bittle nr Chenford (have checked image but think that is what it says)

1901 census shows Charles and Harriet at 2 Albert Road North, Buckhurst Hill with Charles born Prittle 1862.

Last child Edward George born 24/01/1903 2 Albert Road north, Buckhurst Hill.

Both birth certs confirm father Charles George Anderson, labourer. Mother Harriet E Anderson, formerly Foster.

Charles and Harriets marriage cert states Charles father is Charles George Anderson, travelling hawker, deceased. Harriets father is James Foster, Labourer.

1881 shows Harriet living with her family in Russel Row, Chigwell. She is housekeeper to her family.

1871 shows Harriet and family at Farm House, Oak Hall, Epping.

Witnesses on the marriage cert are Samuel Crabb and Thomas Thorogood.

In 1881 Samuel Crabb b North Weald 1856 is a visitor in Russell Row (Where Harriett is living at the time).

If that is not enough I am also looking for any decendants of the children listed in the thread.

About all those place names ...

There's no Prittle in Essex

There's no Bittle in Essex, but google maps finds a business called Bittle and Mumford Gears a few blocks from the Buckhurst Hill tube station.

No Chenford, but Chingford is about two miles west of that tube station.

So it seems that really he's from the Buckhurst Hill area too -- and the places he's naming as place of birth are so specific, he really must be from around there, or he would have just said "Buckhurst Hill", or even "Chigwell", or some such.

But hmm. there is a Prittlewell in Essex, now a part of Southend-on-Sea. What if he really was saying "Prittle", and some enumerator interpreted it as "Bittle near Chenford (Chingford)"?

But dang, the Charles with father Charles, born 1857 in Prittlewell, is still in the 1891 census with wife Jane ...


Oh duh, on edit -- you looked at him already ... but read on ...

A theory ...


The Prittlewell Andersons in 1871:


Emma Anderson 36
Charles Anderson 36
Charles Anderson 14
David Anderson 12
Emma Anderson 10
Henry Anderson 5
Samuel Anderson 1
Thomas Anderson 3



Another Prittlewell Anderson in 1861:

Name: Emma Anderson
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Prittlewell, Essex, England
Civil Parish: Prittlewell
Ecclesiastical parish: Rochester
County/Island: Essex
Country: England


Sister of Charles Sr (born 1835) in the 1871 household? Who was himself named for his father?

Possible mother of your Charles? Not at all uncommon for children of unmarried mothers to name their *grandfather* as father when they married.

Not panning out perfectly; here is Emma's household in 1851:


Name: Emma Anderson
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Thomas
Mother's Name: Therza
Gender: Female
Where born: Prittlewell

Therza Anderson 40
Thomas Anderson 43
Am Anderson 9
Emma Anderson 4 <<
Isabella Anderson 7
James Anderson 11
Jane Anderson 1
Thomas Anderson 17


The household in 1841:


Elora Anderson 5
James Anderson 2
Louisa Anderson 10
Mary Anderson 17
Mary Anderson 70
Thomas Anderson 30
Thomas Anderson 8
Thurra Anderson 30


... but then, it also wouldn't be unusual for a man to invent a father with his own name when he married ...

No Charles / Charles George Anderson birth in Rochford reg district (Prittlewell) 1860-1865.


Emma Anderson (1847) in 1871:


Name: Emma Anderson
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Prittlewell, Essex, England
Civil Parish: Paddington
County/Island: London



Charles Anderson 1862 Apr-May-Jun Shoreditch London, Middlesex
Charles Anderson 1862 Jul-Aug-Sep Pancras (1837-1901) London, Middlesex
Charles Anderson 1864 Jul-Aug-Sep Chelsea (1841-1981) Greater London, London, Middlesex

...

Hi again Katherine,

I like your theory on place names. I would never have thought of that.

I am wondering if he just changed his name around. Maybe I should be looking for George Charles (My Gt grandfather started as Edward George and became George Edward).

There is also a Charles Anderson in the 1881 b London Middlesex, living West Ham that I would like to follow up in a minute. I know he is born in the wrong area but they tended to change place of birth sometimes.

Need to get the 4 kids in to bed first though!

Another starnge thing. if you look at Charles Anderson births Essex 1861+/- 5 you get 11 results (one of them a Frederick Charles), but if you search the 1871 census for Charles Andersons essex b same time frame you only get 2. Where are the others? Did they all die?

And now for a completely different theory.

His father *was* Charles Anderson, but his mother was unmarried so he was not born with the name Anderson.


1881:

Name: Charles Anderson
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Epsom, Surrey, England
Condition as to marriage: unmarried

Civil Parish: Kingston On Thames
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street address: Bridge St
Occupation: Hawker <<<

Registration district: Kingston
Sub-registration district: Kingston


1881 searchable at Ancestry by occupation, that's the only Charles Anderson, hawker.

Oh, you're here!

I was just muddling along with my own thoughts ... ;)

Is there any sign of that Charles in the 1861?In theory he should have been in Essex if thats where Charles was born

The 1881 Charles Anderson's birth place appears to be a crock; there's nobody to match him in other censuses or the GRO births.

I should have mentioned -- in 1881 he's on the page after the one Ancestry links to, if you're looking for him.

How do you like a misbehaving sailor for the job?

1861

Name: Charles Anderson
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relation: Prisoner
Gender: Male
Where born: London, England

Occupation: Merchant Service
Condition as to marriage: Unmarried
Street address: Falmouth Borough Prison

Civil Parish: Falmouth
Town: Falmouth
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England



who might be this one in 1851:


Name: Charles Anderson
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James - merchant, born Scotland
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: London, Essex, England

Civil Parish: Stepney
Ecclesiastical parish: St Philip
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England


That one in 1841:


Name: Charles Anderson
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Gender: Male
Where born: Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Stepney
Hundred: Ossulstone (Tower Division)
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: Stepney
Sub-registration district: Mile End Old Town Upper

Found him. Nice candidate but if he is lying about his place of birth...

Have looked at George Andersons and there are 2 born Rochford (Which I think covers Prittlewell) in 1863. Going to try to find them now.

Interesting, but if he is busy serving time he may not have been visiting Essex lol

The 1861 prisoner -- there are 10 prisoners, all of them seamen in the merchant service.

I suspect it was a short-term custody, resulting from a brawl the night before or some such.

Ruled out one George, died aged 6.

If Charles Anderson was not born Charles Anderson I have no hope of ever finding him. I am quite enjoying the speculation over sailors and prisoners, all interesting ideas, especially the sailor as prittlewell is by the coast (although Southend is famous for its pier, not a naval port!)

I have a nasty feeling that this is another family line that will never be discovered.