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Romany Gypsy look ups

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 25 Mar 2021 11:02

Mandy's posts on here are directed at Elizabeth, but, as she hasn't been on here for two years, and was ill in 2019, she may not see them

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 25 Mar 2021 10:16

Please stick to your own thread, Mandy.

It's confusing for us to have to keep looking at two threads in case we've missed something.
The same people look at all the threads, so you only need one.

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 25 Mar 2021 09:51

Posting more than once won't advance your cause.

Mandy

Mandy Report 24 Mar 2021 18:36

Yes I have lots of information on Frank Gritt and his family going back to 1700s. It is Violet Smith that is needed. I don’t think I’m ever going to find her true family or birth.

Mandy

Mandy Report 24 Mar 2021 18:33

Hi Elizabeth, my family, my grandfather Frank Gritt was son of William and Mary Gritt nee Sherrod known as Granny Gritt. My grandfather married Ellen Green in 1889 in Boldre then in 1923 married at Bishops Waltham my grandmother Violet Smith she was a hawker 23yrs her father William Smith labourer deceased Corhampton Downs. Violet died 1957 aged 53. Frank died 1959 aged 90. Both buried at Fawley, Hants.
The gypsy and traveller is part of the Gritt family.
My mother said her mother Violet Smith never had any family, talk from elderly aunt that she had a brother David. They were sold or adopted family in Park Gate called Dobey/Doby. How true I do not know. My mother is nearly 80 and the last of her family. I would love to be able to give her some information before it’s too late. Many thanks for any help Mandy

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 24 Mar 2021 10:33

As Elizabeth hasn't posted since 2019, don't be too surprised if she doesn't respond now

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 23 Mar 2021 20:35

Mandy -

Frank's ancestry is easy to find, so I'm assuming it's Violet's side of the family you're trying to trace?

Assuming she was born in Hampshire, I don't see her birth - but as said many times in this thread, travellers are very hard to find in records - often impossible.

Is Corhampton Down where her father died, or was it her address at the time of her marriage?

You say Violet and her brother David were "adopted or given away". That would likely have been an informal arrangement, probably with relatives. Certainly she kept her birth surname - assuming her father was indeed called William Smith.

But maybe Smith was her adoptive surname, and William Smith her adoptive father.
Or maybe she invented a father for the sake of respectability on the marriage cert.



ADDED:

Ah, I see you already have a thread of your own about this family:
https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1391815

Mandy

Mandy Report 23 Mar 2021 19:19

Hi I wonder if you could help me find my grandmothers family.
Her name is Violet Smith.
She married Frank Gritt in July 1923 at Bishops Waltham. Her father is William Smith labourer deceased, Corhamptonmpton Downs. Violet was a hawker.
Violet died 12 Jun 1957 at Fawley aged 53.
1939 register at Fawley birth as Jun 1903.
An elderly aunt spoke of a brother David and they were both adopted or given away. Mention of family Dobey/Doby in Park Gate.
The Gritt families were hawkers, gypsies travellers. Frank married Ellen Green who was a Romany.
Any info you can help me with would be much appreciated. Franks mother was Mary Gritt nee sherrod known as Grann6 Gritt, married to William.

Ann

Ann Report 10 May 2019 03:53

Hi ArgyllGran, Yes trying to find Bridget is like trying to find a needle in a haystack! LOL

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 29 Apr 2019 21:42

You're very welcome, Ann!
It's a pity there seems to be no sign of Bridget in 1911.
The travellers are indeed hard to track.

Ann

Ann Report 29 Apr 2019 20:12

ArgyllGran, Thank you so much! You were spot on with the Lyons/Lines/Lines family... I am still looking for the burial place of William and Bridget... it seems to be my biggest roadblock at this time.. I appreciate all the information you found... Alfred Lyons was my great grandfather. I keep trying... but am still having no success... Thanks again for all the information! Much appreciated! Ann

greyghost

greyghost Report 31 Mar 2019 19:36

Sorry to hear that Elizabeth, hope you're improved. It's a couple of years since you posted on this thread so I think we thought you didn't any longer.

Over to you -

Elizabeth

Elizabeth Report 31 Mar 2019 18:47

Hi yes I am still posting just been porly

greyghost

greyghost Report 31 Mar 2019 17:58

Judith - have a look back a bit and you'll see that Elizabeth doesn't appear to be posting anymore.

When you say you're looking for information - what do you already have so we don't duplicate.

Is this Mary Ann -

England Births and Christenings
Name Mary Ann Grits
Gender Female
Christening Date 19 Apr 1819
Christening Date (Original) 19 APR 1819
Christening Place Eling, Hampshire, England
Father's Name James Grits
Mother's Name Hester Grits

They seem to be baptising children in Eling from at least 1817 -

https://www.familysearch.org - free to search

judith

judith Report 31 Mar 2019 16:46

Hello Liz

I am looking for information regarding members of my family,

Samuel Harris my 2xgdad 1816 /1845 his wife Mary Ann Gritt 2xgmother 1819/1892

Plus her mother Esther White my 3xgmother 1780/1834.
Would be very grateful for any information about them. I believe they were all from around the Hampshire area. Many thanks Judith

:-) :-)

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 22 Mar 2019 11:51

1891 says Bridget was born in Bradford - which only muddies the waters even more. Her birth year also varies quite a bit:

Bridget Lyons
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Bridget Lyons
Gender: Female
Age: 46
Relationship: Wife
Birth Year: 1845
Spouse: William Lyons
Child: Lydia Lyons
Frederick Lyons
Alfred Lyons
Mary A Lyons
George Lyons
Katherine Lyons
Birth Place: Bradford, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Oswestry
Residence Place: Oswestry, Oswestry, Shropshire, England
Sub registration district: Oswestry
ED, Institution or Vessel: 18
Neighbors:
Piece: 2117
Folio: 117
Household Members:
Name Age
William Lyons 44 - horse dealer
Bridget Lyons 46
Lydia Lyons 18
Frederick Lyons 17
Alfred Lyons 13
Mary A Lyons 10
George Lyons 8
Katherine Lyons 6


But 1881 and 1901 both say born Bury St Edmunds, and that's where she was married

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 22 Mar 2019 11:46

William and Bridget's daughter Lydia in 1911, in another field - so Bridget's not with her either:

Lydia Arnold
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Lydia Arnold
Age in 1911: 37
Estimated birth year: abt 1874
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: London, England
Civil Parish: Wem Urban
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England
Street address: Caravan In Talbot Yard, Wem
Marital status: Married
Years Married: 18
Estimated Marriage Year: 1893
Registration district: Wem
Registration District Number: 352
Sub-registration district: Wem
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Household schedule number: 165
Piece: 16198
Household Members:
Name Age
Isaac Arnold 41
Lydia Arnold 37
Isaac Arnold 14
Rose Arnold 11
Emma Arnold 9
William Arnold 6

Lydia died in Birmingham in 1914. Probate to Jeremiah Lyons, horse dealer.


Unfortunately, as Bridget was a traveller/hawker, she could have married or died anywhere, and it's not an uncommon name

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 22 Mar 2019 11:27

EDIT:

NO, IGNORE THIS marriage below. I forgot William only died in 1909.



Just a possibility, there's this marriage;

Marriages Dec 1907 (>99%)
LYONS Bridget Merthyr T. 11a 1376
TYLER Edith Maud Merthyr T. 11a 1376
VAUGHAN William Joseph Merthyr T. 11a 1376

Unfortunately, it's no help!

William Joseph and Edith Maud are together in 1911, and this record doesn't show the other bridegroom's name.



In the 1911 census, I don't see a Bridget born c 1849 in Bury St Edmunds. (So far, at least).
In 1891 her name is spelled Brigit.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 22 Mar 2019 11:13

For our reference, is this the right family in 1901?


William Lyons
in the 1901 Wales Census
Name: William Lyons
Age in 1901: 50
Estimated birth year: abt 1851
Relation: Head
Spouse: Bridget Lyons
Gender: Male
Where born: Woodbridge, Suffolk, England
Civil Parish: Buckley
Town: Buckley
Ecclesiastical parish: Buckley St Matthew
County/Island: Flintshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Chester
Sub-registration district: Hawarden
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 295
Piece: 3378
Folio: 26
Page Number: 44
Household Members:
Name Age
William Lyons 50 - hawker, basket seller, etc
Bridget Lyons 52 - Bury St Edmunds
Alfred Lyons 22 - Shrewsbury
Mary A Lyons 20 - Worcester
George Lyons 18 - Wellington, Shropshire
Kate Lyons 17 - Chester


And the son Alfred in 1911:

Alfred Lyons
in the 1911 Wales Census
Name: Alfred Lyons
Age in 1911: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1879
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Civil Parish: Pontypridd
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: In A Field, Bridge Street, Trallion, Pontypridd
Marital status: Married,
Years Married: 9
Estimated Marriage Year: 1902
Occupation: Licensed Hawker
Registration district: Pontypridd
Registration District Number: 589
Sub-registration district: Eglwysilan
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Household schedule number: 152
Piece: 32220
Household Members:
Name Age
Alfred Lyons 32 - Shrewsbury, licensed hawker
Mary Lyons 28
Alfred Lyons 8
Peter Lyons 7
Annie Lyons 5
Kate Lyons 3


The surname is variously spelled Lynes and Lines

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 22 Mar 2019 11:02

Welcome to the boards, Ann.

Elizabeth hasn't added anything to this thread in the last two years.
If you want to try to contact her directly, click on her name in green at the top of one of her posts, and send a private message. GR will notify her that there's a message for her, and then she may (or may not - no guarantees! ) be able to read and reply to it.

In the meantime, I'm sure the other helpers on the board will be looking for anything they can find, and will add any info here.