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Help JAMES CHRISTIE

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Ian

Ian Report 24 Dec 2017 20:00

I'm helping a relation starting to look up anothe branch of her family.
James Christie DOB 30 May 1865 Rescobie, Forfarshire
DOD 18 March 1930 in Bothwell.
He married twice?
There is confusion about when, where he was born and parents.
Any help will be great, thanks.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 24 Dec 2017 20:15

Is this the one ?


James Christie
in the 1881 Scotland Census
Name: James Christie
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Relationship: Servant
Gender: Male
Where born: Rescobie, Forfarshire
Registration Number: 299
Registration district: Kirriemuir
Civil Parish: Kirriemuir
County: Angus
Address: Lednathie House
Occupation: Agr. Lab.
ED: 17
Household schedule number: 24
LINE: 21
Roll: cssct1881_93
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Dougall 38
Christina Dougall 34
John Dougall 9
Robert Dougall 6
James Dougall 1
Elizabeth Duthie 18
James Christie 16
James Watt 14



James Christie
in the 1891 Scotland Census
Name: James Christie
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1870
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Margaret Christie
Gender: Male
Where born: Rescobie, Forfar
Registration Number: 288
Registration district: Forfar
Civil Parish: Forfar
County: Angus
Address: Gowanbank 7
Occupation: Gamedealer
ED: 25
Household schedule number: 80
LINE: 4
Roll: CSSCT1891_99
Household Members:
Name Age
James Christie 21
Margaret Christie 26
Jemima Tosh 18 - sister-in-law
Mabil Christie 8 Mo



James Christie
in the 1901 Scotland Census
Name: James Christie
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1866
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Margaret Christie
Gender: Male
Where born: Rescobie, Forfarshire
Registration Number: 288A
Registration district: Forfar
Civil Parish: Forfar
County: Angus
Address: Gowanbank House
Occupation: Produce Merchant
ED: 25
Household schedule number: 75
LINE: 4
Roll: CSSCT1901_107
Household Members:
Name Age
James Christie 35
Margaret Christie 35 - Dundee
Mabel Christie 10
Margaret Christie 9
Helen Christie 7
Honora Christie 5
Alexander Christie 1

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 24 Dec 2017 20:17

ScotlandsPeople doesn't show any James Christie born actually in Rescobie 1860-70, although several in the Forfar area.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 24 Dec 2017 20:23

His marriage to Margaret:

CHRISTIE
JAMES
TOSH
MARGARET
1890
275/ 14
Brechin


If you spend a few credits on ScotlandsPeople, you can view or print the image of the original cert, and it will tell you his parents' names, and where and when his parents married.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 24 Dec 2017 20:29

A tree on Ancestry says Margaret died 1934 in Scotland - so maybe this death? Again, a few credits would let you see all details, including husband's name to verify:

CHRISTIE
MARGARET
71
1933
644/24 21
Cathcart (Glasgow)


If that's so, then he couldn't have married twice - unless briefly between 1881 and 1890 - assuming he and Margaret didn't separate. His death cert would tell you his marital status at death.
Do you have his death cert?

Choccy

Choccy Report 24 Dec 2017 20:33

Scotlands People -

Marriage cert shows father of James Christie is DAVID CHRISTIE and mother is ELIZAETH LIVINGSTON


Copy of certificate sent to Ian by PM

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 24 Dec 2017 20:42

In that case, maybe this is him ??

***********
EDIT:
No I don't think this is him, in light of later posts - but will leave for elimination.
***********


James Christie
in the 1871 Scotland Census
Name: James Christie
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Relationship: Son
Father's name: David Christie
Mother's name: Elizabeth Christie
Gender: Male
Where born: Brechin, Forfarshire
Registration Number: 272
Registration district: Arbroath
Civil Parish: Arbroath
Town: Arbroath
County: Angus
Address: 19 Abbot Street
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 14
Household schedule number: 85
LINE: 17
Roll: CSSCT1871_47
Household Members:
Name Age
David Christie 39
Elizabeth Christie 35
William Christie 14
James Christie 12


James Christie
in the 1861 Scotland Census
Name: James Christie
Age: 2
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Relationship: Son
Father's name: David Christie
Mother's name: Elizabeth Christie
Gender: Male
Where born: Brechin, Forfarshire
Registration Number: 272
Registration district: Arbroath
Civil Parish: Arbroath
Town: Arbroath
County: Angus
Address: 7 Kirk Wynd
ED: 8
Household schedule number: 45
LINE: 20
Roll: CSSCT1861_36
Household Members:
Name Age
David Christie 27
Elizabeth Christie 25
William Christie 4
James Christie 2


EDIT:

But that James could be this one:

****** EDIT: Probably is, in fact..****

James Christie
in the Scotland, Select Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950
Name: James Christie
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 11 Jun 1858
Birth Place: Brechin,Angus,Scotland
Father: David Christie
Mother: Elisabeth Leslie
FHL Film Number: 6035516

Ian

Ian Report 24 Dec 2017 20:47

Hi ArgyllGran, thanks very much.
Confusing about the DOB's. I'll look at scotlands people and see what they have. If he was born 1870 he would have been 3 when his parents married David Christie 1837 & Betsey Liveston (Livingstone???)

Ian

Ian Report 24 Dec 2017 20:59

WOW thanks again ArgyllGran!!!!
I hadn't seen you additional info about his parents.
That extract confirms the details. I'll look at the DOB's again.

Hope you have a great Christmas tomorrow.
Ian

AustinQ

AustinQ Report 25 Dec 2017 10:22

Not really understanding what's going on- but I am trying! Are you searching for the James that married Margaret Tosh?

David Christie married Betsy Liveston in 1866 Forfar:

This is them in 1871 (with son, James):

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
127, East High Street, Forfar, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland

David Christie Head Married Male 34 1837 Councillor Master Shoemaker Employing 4 Men & A Boy Forfar, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Betsey Christie Wife Married Female 25 1846 - Forfar, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
James Christie Son - Male 5 1866 Scholar Forfar, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
David Christie Son - Male 3 1868 - Forfar, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
William Christie Son - Male 1 1870 - Forfar, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
-----------------------------------------

and 1881:

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
115, East High Street, Forfar, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland

David Christie Head Married Male 44 1837 Shoemaker Forfar, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Betsy Christie Wife Married Female 34 1847 - Forfar, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
David Christie Son Unmarried Male 14 1867 Office Boy Forfar, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
William G Christie Son - Male 12 1869 Scholar Forfar, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Andrew L Christie Son - Male 10 1871 Scholar Forfar, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
John B Christie Son - Male 8 1873 Scholar Forfar, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Ann G Christie Daughter - Female 5 1876 - Forfar, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Barbara Christie Daughter - Female 2 1879 - Forfar, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
----------------------------

and 1891

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
South Street, Forfar, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland

David Christie Head Unmarried Male 52 1839 Shoemaker Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
William C Christie Son Unmarried Male 21 1870 Railway Porter Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Andrew Christie Son Unmarried Male 19 1872 Calander Worker Forfar, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
John Christie Son Unmarried Male 16 1875 Factory Worker Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Barbara Christie Daughter - Female 11 1880 Scholar Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Grant Christie Son - Male 8 1883 Scholar Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Margaret Christie Daughter - Female 5 1886 - Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
------------------------------------------

Baptism of Andrew, confirming mother's maiden name:

Name Andrew Livingston Christie
Gender Male
Birth Date 20 Dec 1871
Birthplace FORFAR,ANGUS,SCOTLAND
Father's Name David Christie
Mother's Name Betsy Livingston
--------------------------------------

James is not with his family in 1881 or 1891. His brother, Grant served in the army. On his records it lists his brother, James (address not known).

AustinQ

AustinQ Report 25 Dec 2017 11:34

There's quite a bit in the newspapers about him- seems he upset a few people!

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Gowanbank House, Montrose Road, Forfar, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland

James Christie Head Married Male 35 1866 Produce Merchant Rescobie, Forfarshire (Angus),
Margaret Christie Wife Married Female 35 1866 Merchant's Wife Dundee, Forfarshire (Angus),
Mabel Christie Daughter - Female 10 1891 Scholar Forfar, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Margaret Christie Daughter - Female 9 1892 Scholar Forfar, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Helen Christie Daughter - Female 7 1894 Scholar Forfar, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Honora Christie Daughter - Female 5 1896 Scholar Forfar, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Alexander Christie Son - Male 1 1900 - Forfar, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 25 Dec 2017 11:35

So it's only from 1881 onwards that he lists his birthplace as Rescobie - 1881, 1891, 1901 censuses posted earlier.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 25 Dec 2017 11:48

None of the trees on Ancestry (for whatever they're worth !) mentions any wife other than Margaret Tosh.

Also, none of them offers any proof of James's date/place of death.

Where did you get the date of death from, Ian?
This is the only death of a James Christie in 1930 in Bothwell:

CHRISTIE
JAMES WISHART L
65
1930
625/1 68
Bothwell

But I don't see a corresponding birth, if that's him.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 25 Dec 2017 11:53

Aha!

LIVESTON
JAMES WISHART
M
1865
317/ 9
Rescobie

AustinQ

AustinQ Report 25 Dec 2017 11:58

Ah- well done AG!

AustinQ

AustinQ Report 25 Dec 2017 12:12

Scotland, Select Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

Name: James Wishart Liveston
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 30 May 1865
Birth Place: Rescobie,Angus,Scotland
Mother: Betsy Liveston
FHL Film Number: 6035516

Ian

Ian Report 25 Dec 2017 20:02

Another WOW for all of you.
The person who gave all the info wasn't sure about James, he had 3/4 different possibility's which include the new names etc. The person who gave the info is related through marriage to my s-in-l. I've gone through his paperwork again and it looks like David and his wife Betsy divorced on 2 Dec 1890??? The plot thickens!!!!!

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 25 Dec 2017 22:21

I doubt they divorced. Most Scottish divorce papers have survived and there is nothing showing on the online catalogue.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 25 Dec 2017 22:58

David is certainly listed as unmarried in 1891 census - but they probably just separated.

Re Betsy - I had a look at her marriage cert, and it says her parents were John and Anne (nee Grant). She was living at East High Street at time of marriage

I think this is her in 1891, reverted to her maiden name, and in her brother David's household:

Betsy Liveston
in the 1891 Scotland Census
Name: Betsy Liveston
Age: 46
Estimated birth year: abt 1845
Relationship: Sister
Gender: Female
Where born: Forfar, Forfarshire
Registration Number: 288
Registration district: Forfar
Civil Parish: Forfar
County: Angus
Address: Myreside of Restenneth Farm House
ED: 26
Household schedule number: 23
LINE: 3
Roll: CSSCT1891_99
Household Members:
Name Age
David Liveston 48
Maggie Liveston 40
Catherine Liveston 14
David Liveston 8
Nellie Liveston 6
Lizzie Liveston 5
Mary Liveston 3
Betsy Liveston 46

Betsy, David, parents & siblings in 1851:

Belly Liverton
in the 1851 Scotland Census
1851 Scotland Census No Image
Name: Belly Liverton
Age: 5
Estimated birth year: abt 1846
Relationship: Daughter
Father: John Liveston
Mother: Ann Liveston
Gender: Female
Where born: Forfar, Forfarshire
Parish Number: 288
Civil Parish: Forfar
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
Town: Forfar
County: Angus
Address: South Side East High Street <<<<<<<<<<<<<
Occupation: School
ED: 4
Page: 13
Household schedule number: 23
LINE: 2
Roll: CSSCT1851_64
Household Members:
Name Age
John Liveston 38
Ann Liveston 36
John Liverton 11
Jean Liverton 9
David Liverton 7
Belly Liverton 5
Will Liverton 4
James Liverton 2
Andrew Leverton 1



Ian

Ian Report 25 Dec 2017 22:58

Hi Root, thanks for that. The person who gave the info states that he found the divorce written on the back of the marriage cert? David took it out against Betsy