Genealogy Chat

Hi, I’ve found Kathleen (my nans sister) on the 1911 census but cannot find birth record or any other records. Any ideas where to go from here?

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
26 Great Queen ST, St Giles in the Fields and St George Bloomsbury, London & Middlesex, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
John Henry Gray Head Married Male 48 1863 Devonport Devon Porter Wine And Spirit Trade
Transcription
Mary Kate Gray Wife Married Female 45 1866 Woolwich -
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John Henry Gray Son Single Male 18 1893 St Giles Parish London Boot Repairer
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Edith Gray Daughter Single Female 14 1897 St Clements Parish London -
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Mabel Gray Daughter - Female 9 1902 St Giles Parish London -
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Minnie Gray Daughter - Female 6 1905 St Giles Parish London -
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Albert Gray Son - Male 3 1908 St Giles Parish London -
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Kathleen Gray Daughter - Female 1 1910 St Giles Parish London -


married 25 years 6 born ,6 living, none have died

????


Results:
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: Order:
GRAY, MINNIE ELIZABETH ORR Order
GRO Reference: 1904 J Quarter in ST GILES Volume 01B Page 599

Marriages Sep 1885 (>99%)
Ball Frederick John Stoke D. 5b 569
Gray John Henry Stoke D. 5b 569 xxxxxxxxxx
ORR Mary Kate Stoke D. 5b 569 xxxxxxxxxx
Turpin Maria Louisa Stoke Damerel 5b 569

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
2, Great Queen Street Queens Place, St Giles in the Fields and St George Bloomsbury, St Giles, London & Middlesex, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
John H Gray Head Married Male 38 1863 Devon, England General Labourer
Transcription
Mary K Gray Wife Married Female 35 1866 Woolwich, Kent, England -
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Ellen J Gray Daughter Single Female 14 1887 Walworth, Surrey, England Perforator To Book Folding Trade
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Maud M Gray Daughter Single Female 12 1889 Newington, London, England -
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Ada F Gray Daughter Single Female 10 1891 Walworth, Surrey, England -
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John H Gray Son Single Male 8 1893 St Giles, Middlesex, England -
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William T Gray Son Single Male 6 1895 Strand, Middlesex, England -
Transcription
Edith E Gray Daughter Single Female 4 1897 Strand, Middlesex, England -

6 children on this census as mary kate says on the 1911 census 6 children born
kathleen could be a grand daughter ????

Kathleen Gray
England and Wales Birth Registration Index, 1837-2008
Name: Kathleen Gray
Event Type: Birth Registration
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Year: 1910
Registration District: Lewisham
County: London
Event Place: Lewisham, London, England
Volume: 1D
Page: 1076
Line Number: 31

Births Mar 1900 (>99%)
Gray Kathleen Mile End 1c 451

It's not the lewisham one Malyon as the mmn on that one is Niven

The one being sought was born c1910.

The mother was in hospital in 1939, and the father was living with daughter Ellen and her family, so no info available there about Kathleen

John H jr was with his wife and daughter only in 1939

Hi ErikaH,
Thanks for info. How did you find out the mother was in hospital and the other info from 1939?

I think the birth that Malyon found in Lewisham in 1910 is the most likely and that she is possibly a granddaughter or other relative to Mary Kate Gray. On the image of the 1911 census there was actually no relationship given for Kathleen and it is the enumerator who has written in "daughter".

There is this death that could correspond with the birth:-

England & Wales deaths 1837-2007 Transcription

First name(s) KATHLEEN
Last name GRAY
Gender Female
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1910
Age 24
Death quarter 2
Death year 1934
District Chelsea
County London
Volume 1A
Page 446
Country England
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials
Collections from Great Britain, England

The details from the death certificate may help.

Kath. x

Older daughter Ada F Gray married Albert Wood.

Ada Florence Gray
in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1932
Name: Ada Florence Gray
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 25
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1891
Marriage Date: 26 Mar 1916
Marriage Place: St Ann, Tottenham, Haringey, England
Father: Harry Gray
Spouse: Albert Edward Wood
Register Type: Parish Register

One closed record with them in 1939:

Ada F Wood
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Ada F Wood
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Married
Birth Date: 19 Aug 1890
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 2 Orpington Gardens
Residence Place: Edmonton, Middlesex, England
Occupation: Unpaid Domestic Duties
Schedule Number: 81
Sub Schedule Number: 2
Enumeration District: BDCX
Registration district: 132/5
Inferred Spouse: Albert S Wood
Household Members:
Name
Albert S Wood
Ada F Wood

However, assuming they lived in Edmonton from marriage onwards, there are possible births of children from the marriage, so again no help with Kathleen.

The 1939 information came from the 1939 Register on Findmypast.

This looks like Mary Kate Gray in the 1939 register:-

Household (1 Person)
Lambeth Hospital Brook Drive , Lambeth, London, England

FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) ROLE DOB SEX OCCUPATION MARITAL STATUS SCHEDULE SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER

Mary K Gray P ? ? (patient) 1866 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Incapacitated Married 1 63
Ref: RG101/0340C/003/19 Letter Code:

Kath. x

"IF" the Lewisham birth is the correct one, it must have been an illegitimate birth, but the father took responsibility - either John Henry or William Thomas.

There's no marriage of either of them to a Niven, 1900-1920, in England/Wales, or Scotland.
In fact, there are no Gray / Niven marriages at all in that period in England/Wales.

1911 isn't entirely accurate (apart from whether or not Kathleen was a daughter). It says 6 children, all alive, none deceased.
Maybe John senior thought it meant the six who were at home in 1911 - and included Kathleen.

But there were nine (not counting Kathleen):

1901 - Ellen, Maud, Ada, John, William, Edith
1911 - John, Edith, Mabel, Minnie, Albert


It's possible that this is William T's death ???? (but it's a common name):

GRAY, WILLIAM THOMAS 21
GRO Reference: 1917 M Quarter in ISLINGTON Volume 01B Page 321

GRAY, ELLEN JANE ORR
GRO Reference: 1886 S Quarter in ST SAVIOUR SURREY Volume 01D Page 142

GRAY, MAUD MARY ORR
GRO Reference: 1888 D Quarter in ST SAVIOUR SURREY Volume 01D Page 167

GRAY, JOHN HENRY ORR
GRO Reference: 1892 D Quarter in ST GILES Volume 01B Page 588

GRAY, WILLIAM THOMAS ORR
GRO Reference: 1895 J Quarter in STRAND Volume 01B Page 649

GRAY, ADA FLORENCE ORR
GRO Reference: 1890 D Quarter in ST SAVIOUR LONDON Volume 01D Page 143

RAY, EDITH ESTHER ORR
GRO Reference: 1897 J Quarter in STRAND Volume 01B Page 623

GRAY, MABEL ORR
GRO Reference: 1902 J Quarter in ST GILES Volume 01B Page 587

GRAY, MINNIE ELIZABETH ORR
GRO Reference: 1904 J Quarter in ST GILES Volume 01B Page 599

GRAY, ALBERT EDWARD ORR
GRO Reference: 1907 S Quarter in ST GILES Volume 01B Page 543

could kathleen have been born williams

Births Mar 1910
WILLIAMS Kathleen St Giles 1b 532

No, that one's mms was Bates:


WILLIAMS, KATHLEEN mms BATES
GRO Reference: 1910 M Quarter in ST GILES Volume 01B Page 532

I've been through all the children called Kathleen, or with Kathleen as a middle name, born in St Giles 1909-11, and none of them has mms Gray.

If she's a grandchild, then she must be the daughter of one of the sons.

This one was born illegitimately:

HITCHCOCK, KATHLEEN -
GRO Reference: 1909 S Quarter in ST GILES Volume 01B Page 538

She would still have been aged 1 (as stated) by 2 April 1911.

However, this might be her in 1911:

Kathleen Hitchcook [ Hitchcock on image]
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Kathleen Hitchcook
Age in 1911: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1910
Relation to Head: Foster Child
Gender: Female
Birth Place: London, United Kingdom
Civil Parish: Lambeth
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 12 Aytoun Road, Stockwell S W
Registration district: Lambeth
Registration District Number: 25
Sub-registration district: Stockwell
ED, institution, or vessel: 30
Piece: 2036

What looks like a possible brother Gustave, aged 3, another foster child , isn't a brother. His mother's name was Bloxham.

No help with Kathleen but this looks like Maud in 1939. She married in 1912


1939 REGISTER TRANSCRIPTION
Hall Household (4 People)
196 Kingsbridge Road , Merton and Morden U.D., Surrey, England

Maud Mary Hall
DOB 19 Aug 1889
SEX Female
OCCUPATION Housewife
MARITAL STATUS Married
SCHEDULE 418
SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER 2

Herbert J Hall
DOB 28 Jan 1885
SEX Male
OCCUPATION Police Pensioner
MARITAL STATUS Married
SCHEDULE 418
SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER 1

Violet Fowles
DOB 28 Aug 1915
SEX Female
OCCUPATION Pa? Meat Fitter
MARITAL STATUS Single
SCHEDULE 418
SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER 3

Leonard G Fowles
DOB 17 Feb 1912
SEX Male
OCCUPATION Electrician Supply Company
MARITAL STATUS Single
SCHEDULE 418
SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER 4
Ref: RG101/1366B/06/08 Letter Code:
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