Genealogy Chat

Hello everyone, my first time using the community so apologies in advance if I don't ask quite correctly.

My great grandfather was German, but came to England before WW1. He apparently changed his name and served with the military for England. His new name is definitely on the birth certificates of his children, the first of which was born in 1924 and the last in 1943. He did not marry their mother until 1948, oddly.

There is no one in the family that remembers the German surname, and most links have disappeared. My father and myself would love to know what this name was, so we can try and research this side of the family further. As it is, I don't even know his year of birth.

Does anyone know how name changes were processed in those times and if there will be records of them? I assume we can probably narrow it down to 1910-1918 but from there I am a bit lost.

Thank you in advance!
Louise

I think you'll find that most such changes were done informally.

People changed to more 'English' names for convenience as much as anything.

One can be known by any name of one's choosing as long as there is no intent to deceive or defraud.

I have instances of Italian immigrants anglicising their names so that they could be more easily understood

Have you got a copy of the marriage cert? He might have given his father's name in the original German

Do you want to post the name by which he was known, to see if there is an obvious - or likely - German equivalent?

Is he on the 1911 census?

Does he feature in the military service or pensions lists?

If his records survive, they may mention his father or other family as next of kin.

Do you know if he came to England alone or do you perhaps know of siblings here too? Sometimes researching close family sidelines help us to go further back.

If he served in WW1 any S-Record may list a next of kin?


A formal name change may have appeared in the Gazette, ,which is online with archived material.

National Archives uk s another route,which hold early name changes by deedpoll.

Have you found his wife on the 1939 register please?

It was usual for German people to be interned during both world wars. Would a German be able to serve Britain during the war? I did some research for a friend whose Grandfather had a difficult time avoiding interment during WW2 even though he had been living and working in this country since 1891 and his 3 sons had enlisted and were serving in the British army.

Thank you everyone, some great help so far!

His name was Edward Napier, and I have found the marriage record to Margery F Truman and that says 1948. From the Hackney area, which I am told was popular with German immigrants and that is on most of their children's birth record too.

I have found Margery Truman on the 1911 census, it states she was 13 years old. I couldn't find an Edward Napier in the London area with likely relatives. I can't find a birth record for an Edward Napier within the 40 years prior to his first child being born. There is a suggestion his parents may have come to England with him but no one is quite sure.

Can you see the 1921 census or 1939 register yet?

So it seems like the most sensible thing to do next is to order the marriage certificate for Edward and Margaret and hope there is some additional information on it.

Oh and also check the ww1 records, although everything is quite difficult without a birth date!

Sorry, Margery, auto correct

Yes, Louise ............ order that marriage certificate. His father should be named on there.

The certificate will also tell you Edward's age (as long as he told the truth!!), and that is help in finding his birth.

The certificate will cost you £9.25 incl. p&P anywhere in the world.

Order it only from the GRO (General Register Office) site ........ this is the official government site, and other site will charge you more.

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

You have to register, but it is free and safe.

Follow the instructions fro ordering certificates online

Edward Napier and Margerie Truman are on the 1936 Electoral Roll living at 13 Southwold Road, Hackney

In 1931, Edward Napier and Marjorie Truman are living at 14a Whitehall Mansions, Hackney

Edward is at 14a Whitehall Mansions in 1924, but no-one else is listed (ie, if anyone else is living there, they are under voting age of 21).

Marjorie appears on the scene for the first time on the 1929 Electoral Roll ............. Edward napier and Marjorie Napier living at 14a Carles (transcript) .... the image shows 14a Whitehall Mansions, Elderfield Road, Hackney.


I just looked at these few images.


NOTE:- the spelling on the Electoral Rolls IS Marjorie


I do have to say, that marriage so late usually implies that one or other was married before, had simply separated from the first spouse and so Edward and Marjorie unable to marry until that first spouse had died.

Did he serve in WW1 or WW2???????

If WW1, that means he must have been born before 1900, as 18 was the call-up age (unless he lied about his age).


Many people living in England of German origin changed their surnames around 1914 .... including the British Royal Family!

so that makes it a likely time for Edward or his family changing their name.

Oh thank you! I didn't think about the electoral roll!

Is anyone eligible for the electoral roll? Im just wondering how it would work with him being an immigrant. They had their first child in 1924 so must have moved quickly if she wasn't even on the electoral register by then at his address. I gather she must have been born about 1898 as she's listed as 13 on the 1911 census.

I'll get the marriage certificate ordered and look forward to hopefully revealing a bit more information! It's very exciting really isn't it!

Thanks again so much for your help!

Oh and he served in WW1 apparently, which fits nicely with your information!

You might well find that this is Margery/Marjorie's birth registration from Freebmd

Births Jun 1897 (>99%)
Truman Margery Frances Hackney 1b 548


from GRO Index ......

TRUMAN, MARGERY FRANCES mmn KNELL
GRO Reference: 1897 J Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 548

You had to be of voting age and I think also eligible to vote ..... women did not appear on Electoral Rolls until they got voting rights.

Maybe Marjorie/Margery did not move in with him until after the first child (or even 2nd) was born.

Here they are in the 1939 Register


1939 Register, in association with The National Archive
Margery (F) Napier on the 1939 Register

1939 Register Transcription

Napier Household (5 People) 13 Theydon Road , Hackney, London, England

First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Occupation
Margery (F) Napier 17 May 1897 Unpaid Domestic
Edward Napier 22 Jun 1882 Builders Labourer
James E Napier 26 Oct 1924 Office Junior
Doris Napier 10 Feb 1926 School

There is one closed record, presumably 1 of the other younger children who was still alive as of 1991 when the NHS stopped updating the Register.


NOTE Edward's birth date.

Looking at the image, the first birth date entered for Edward was 22-6 1886, but 22-6-1882 is then written above it.

Thank you!! I just found the death record for Edward as 1955, and saw it said 1882! I've just searched the birth records and no Edward Napiers were registered in 1882 so I assume that gives credibility to the family story that he was German at least!

They went on to have 8 children in total, the last born in 1943 I believe.

I wonder if this is worth pursuing as a reason for the marriage to Margery occcuring so late ...............

Marriages Jun 1916 (>99%)

Napier Edward Newson Lewisham 1d 2130
Newson Annie E Napier Lewisham 1d 2130


Deaths Sep 1944 (>99%)
Napier Annie E 71 S. Shields 10a 605


?????? possible child

Births Dec 1917 (>99%)
Napier Annie Newson Croydon 2a 368

??????


Napier Household (1 Person) 230 Edwards Street , South Shields C.B., Durham, England

First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Occupation
Annie E Napier 15 Jun 1873 Unpaid Domestic Duties

The image says she is a Widow ............ not an unusual lie for someone separated from her husband

???

am I grabbing at straws????

1911 Census

Name: Annie Newson
Age in 1911: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation to Head: Servant
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Kingham, Buckingham, England
Civil Parish: Paddington
Search Photos: Search for 'Paddington' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 31 Princes Square, W
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: COOK DOMESTIC
Registration district: Paddington
Registration District Number: 1
Sub-registration district: Paddington South
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Piece: 70
Household Members:
Name Age
Martin Grunebaum 41
Edith Marjorie Grunebaum 24
Geoffrey Martin Grunebaum 2
Eleanor Mary Randall 24
Ivy Eyers 21
Mabel Hannah Day 16
Annie Newson 39

Oh my goodness!