Genealogy Chat

Ethel May Castle b14.05.1897 Fulham d ??.12.1977 Enfield - m Henry Warneford Cresswell in Bromley ??.10.1919 and then m to Harvey Willie Curner (1893-1937) in Kensington 1923. He then married Florence Beatrice Gowing in Wandsworth in June 1932. Ethel had two daughters Ethel May Margaret and Catherine Joan. I can find no records of Ethel's or Harvey's divorces. I believe that Ethel had another Daughter in 1924 named Hilda and that there was also a son. Can anyone fill in the gaps? Ethel was my maternal grandmother.

Not seeing a marriage for Harvey to Ethel in 1923? what name did she marry under?

re divorces http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/divorce/

Hilda J Curner born Kensington 1924, Catherine Cresswell born 1920 Daventry

Births Mar 1917 (>99%)
Castle Ethel M M Castle Hammersmith 1a 265

Birth Frank A H Cresswell mmn castle 1922,

Sadly

Source Gro War Death Army Other Ranks (1939 To 1948)
Archive reference ARR2
Volume 16
War Second World War, 1939-1945
Record set British Armed Forces And Overseas Deaths And Burials
First name(s) Frank A H
Sex Male
Last name Cresswell
Death year 1944
Birth year -
Service number 7590607
Rank Private
Unit or regiment Army Air Corps
Type Armed Forces
Page 25
Registration year -
Branch of service -
Decoration -
Records year range 1944
Line number 42
Archive


https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2931995/cresswell,-frank-alan-harvey/

Ethel may margaret

Marriages Jun 1938 (>99%)

Castle Ethel M M Robinson Surrey Mid E. 2a 839
Cresswell Margaret Robinson Surrey Mid.E. 2a 839
Robinson Alexandria H Castle Surrey Mid.E. 2a 839
Robinson Alexandria H Cresswell Surrey Mid.E. 2a 839

NOTE EDIT so not this one who was the birth in hackney) Going by her date of birth 6/12/97 as given on death reg for 1977 this is Ethel in 1939

54 Stonelane Road, Hackney, London, England

Ethel M Castle 06 Dec 1897 Female Dress Machinist Single 77 1
Fredrick C Smith 31 May 1897 Male Omnibus Driver - Temporary Conductor Married 77 2
Beatrice A Smith 13 Aug 1908 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 77 3
The record for this person is officially closed. Can I get around this?

Peter L J Smith 11 Jun 1936 Male Under School Age Single 77 5

Peter LJ Smith is transcribed as Peter FJ Smith on Ancestry.

Births Jun 1936 (>99%)
SMITH Peter F J (mms Castle) Hackney xx xxx

He may still be alive.


Possible marriage in Chatham, Kent in 1959.

Well spotted ArgyllGran :-) I hadn't noticed mmn, so assume Beatrice is Ethel's sister?


Marriages Mar 1935 (>99%)
Castle Beatrice A Smith Hackney 1b 544
Smith Frederick C Castle Hackney 1b 544

for ref

1911 Census For England & Wales
54 Winslade Road Upper Clapton, St John At Hackney, London & Middlesex, England


Albert Castle Head Married Male 41 1870 Jobbing Gardener Hackney London
Fanny Castle Wife Married Female 41 1870 - Cobham Kent
Edith Clara Castle Daughter Single Female 15 1896 Domestic Service Hackney London
Ethel Mary Castle Daughter - Female 13 1898 School Hackney London
John Arthur Castle Son - Male 11 1900 School Hackney London
Ernest Alfred Castle Son - Male 7 1904 School Hackney London
Florence Lilian Castle Daughter - Female 5 1906 School Hackney London
Beatrice Alice Castle Daughter - Female 2 1909 - Hackney London

Right so that Ethel in 1939 reg and 1911 census is NOT the Ethel may born 1897 in Fulham

need to check whether the death reg is correct Ethel M

Births Jun 1897 (>99%)
Castle Ethel May Fulham 1a 235
Births Mar 1898 (>99%)
Castle Ethel Mary Hackney 1b 451 ( this is the one that died 1977)

Michael do you have Ethel's marriage to Cresswell for her father's name? or her birth cert for mother?

This is Henry W Cresswell in 1939. Should read Warneford Cresswell. Stockman is the surname of the next household.


Henry (Warnehold) Stockman's life in 1939
73 Paris Street, Exeter C.B., Devon, England

Chaplin household
(8 people)
First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number
Mabel Chaplin 06 Feb 1887 Female Office Cleaner Widowed 285 1
Doris E M Dusette (Chaplin) 04 Feb 1911 Female Draper Shop Assistant Single 285 2
Nora M Prescott 28 Nov 1897 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 285 3
The record for this person is officially closed. Can I get around this?
Barbara (E C) Hawkshaw (Prescott) 05 Jul 1928 Female At School Single 285 5
Geoffrey Prescott 02 Mar 1931 Male At School Single 285 6
The record for this person is officially closed. Can I get around this?
>>Henry (Warnehold) Stockman 01 Jul 1886 Male Incapacitated Single 285 8


His birth.

Name: Henry Warneford Cresswell
Registration Year: 1886
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Taunton

This is Ethel May b 1897, MMN Edwards.

1911 Census For England & Wales

306 Latimer Road North Kensington W, Kensington, London & Middlesex, England

Richard Castle Head Married Male 46 1865 Plasterer Hammersmith London
Selina Castle Wife Married Female 44 1867 - Hammersmith London
William G Castle Son Single Male 19 1892 Engineer Motor Hammersmith London
Joseph Castle Son Single Male 17 1894 Cricket Groundman Hammersmith London
Ethel May Castle Daughter - Female 13 1898 School Hammersmith London
Charles Castle Son - Male 11 1900 School Hammersmith London
May Castle Daughter - Female 8 1903 School Hammersmith London
George Castle Son - Male 6 1905 School Hammersmith London
Annie Castle Daughter - Female 4 1907 School Hammersmith London



ETHEL MAY
Last name CASTLE
Birth year 1897
Birth quarter 2
Registration month -
Mother's maiden name Edwards
District Fulham
County London

The last birth we know of for sure was Hilda Curner in 1924, Births Mar 1924 (>99%)
Curner Hilda J Castle Kensington 1a 142

Just wondering about this birth?


Births Dec 1925 (>99%)
Castle Female Castle Kensington 1a 125

Another thread posted now

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1378259

Have sent a PM advising how to return.

From the other post.

Ethel had 2 girls Ethel May Margaret Castle + Catherine Joan Cresswell. I believe there was another daughter Hilda Curner b1924 and there may also have been a son. I can find no record of Ethel's divorces.
Ethel May was my maternal grandmother and was always told she died in 1923 putting the first 2 girls into foster care - can anyone help sorting out this mystery?

H W Cresswell seems to have come from a well priviliged family.


1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Linden Grove, Taunton St James, Taunton, Somerset, England

Sackville B Cresswell Head Married Male 40 1851 Solicitor Monmouthshire, Wales
Lucy E Cresswell Wife Married Female 39 1852 - Warwickshire, England
Richard S Cresswell Son Single Male 11 1880 Scholar Northamptonshire, England
Humphrey B Cresswell Son Single Male 9 1882 Scholar Devon, England
Barbara I Cresswell Daughter Single Female 5 1886 Scholar Somerset, England
>>Henry W Cresswell Son Single Male 4 1887 - Somerset, England
William F Cresswell Son Single Male 2 1889 - Somerset, England
Catherine Warr Servant Single Female 15 1876 General Servant Domestic Somerset, England
Ellen Chedgey Servant Single Female 13 1878 General Servant Domestic Somerset, England


and then is this him in 1901?


1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census

High Street, Bugbrooke, Northampton, Northamptonshire, England

Percy S White Head Married Male 32 1869 Physician And Surgeon Eccleshill, Yorkshire, England
Louie E White Wife Married Female 29 1872 - Barton, Staffordshire, England
Amy E C Harris Servant Single Female 22 1879 Cook (Domestic) Grimscote, Northamptonshire, England
Amy M Bubb Servant - Female 13 1888 Housemaid (Domestic) Banbury, Northamptonshire, England
>>Henry W Cresswell Servant - Male 14 1887 House Boy Taunton, Somerset, England



Now he's a carpenter? He is married.

Name: Henry Wanneford Cresswell
Admission Age: 36
Discharge Age: 36
Record Type: Admission and Discharge
Birth Date: 1886
Admission Date: 2 Jul 1922
Admission Place: Westminster, Westminster, London, England
Discharge Date: 4 Jul 1922
Discharge Place: Westminster, Westminster, London, England


Looks like his father got into a bit of trouble before his death in 1897. He only left his wife £10 in his will

On the other thread Michael also asks for details of Florence Beatrice Gowing.

??
Birth
GOWING, FLORENCE BEATRICE mms BARBER
GRO Reference: 1896 J Quarter in WANGFORD Volume 04A Page 1002


Parents' marriage:

Marriages Mar 1894 (>99%)
Barber Harriett Wangford 4a 1181
Gowing Charles John B Wangford 4a 1181


Florance Gowing
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Florance Gowing
Age: 4
Estimated birth year: abt 1897
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Father: Charles J Gowing
Mother: Harriet Gowing
Birth Place: Ringsfield, Bedfordshire, England
Civil Parish: Barsham
Ecclesiastical parish: Barsham Holy Trinity
Town: Barsham
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Wangford
Sub-registration district: Beccles
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors:
Piece: 1800
Folio: 10
Page Number: 11
Household schedule number: 60
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles J Gowing 30
Harriet Gowing 31
Florance Gowing 4
Albert Gowing 11/12


Florence Gowing
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Florence Gowing
Age in 1911: 14
Estimated birth year: abt 1897
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Ringsfield, Suffolk
Civil Parish: Norton Subcourse and Raveningham
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England
Street address: Norton Subcourse, Loddon, Norfolk
Registration district: Loddon
Registration District Number: 229
Sub-registration district: Aldeby
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Household schedule number: 81
Piece: 11401
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Gowing 40
Florence Gowing 14
Albert Gowing 10
Frederick Gowing 6


Florence B Curner
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Florence B Curner
Gender: Female
Marital status: Widowed
Birth Date: 23 Apr 1896
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 76A Warwick Rd.
Residence Place: Kensington, London, England
Occupation: Paid Domestic Duties
Schedule Number: 185
Sub Schedule Number: 3
Enumeration District: AMDN
Registration district: 2-1 59a
Household Members:
Name
James Flanagan
Mabel Flanagan
Florence B Curner
Joyce Violet Gowling [ Gowing ] - later Bullock



Florence Beatrice Curner
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Florence Beatrice Curner
Death Age: 87
Birth Date: 23 Apr 1896
Registration Date: Jul 1983
[Aug 1983]
[Sep 1983]
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Chiltern and Beaconsfield
Inferred County: Buckinghamshire
Volume: 19
Page: 0914


I don't see the births of any Curner/Gowing children.

Florence is on London ERs for many years.


Harvey's death:

Harvey Curner
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Harvey Curner
Death Age: 44
Birth Date: abt 1893
Registration Date: Oct 1937
[Nov 1937]
[Dec 1937]
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Fulham
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1a
Page: 399


Harvey Willie Curner
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Harvey Willie Curner
Age in 1911: 18
Estimated birth year: abt 1893
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Berealston, Devon
Civil Parish: Bere Ferrers
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Street address: Station Road, Berealston, South Devon
Marital status: Single
Occupation: Gardener Market
Registration district: Tavistock
Registration District Number: 279
Sub-registration district: Calstock
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Household schedule number: 119
Piece: 13065
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Curner 58
Harvey Willie Curner 18


Harvey Curner
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Harvey Curner
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1893
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Father: John Curner
Mother: Elizabeth Curner
Birth Place: Bere Ferrers, Devon, England
Civil Parish: Bere Ferrers
Ecclesiastical parish: Bere Ferrers St Andrew
Town: Bere Alston
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Tavistock
Sub-registration district: Calstock
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors:
Piece: 2115
Folio: 18
Page Number: 7
Household schedule number: 47
Household Members:
Name Age
John Curner 58
Elizabeth Curner 48
Tom Curner 15
Harvey Curner 8


Harvey Willie Curner
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: Harvey Willie Curner
Registration Year: 1892
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration district: Tavistock
Inferred County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 315


Harvey Curner
in the British Army WWI Pension Records 1914-1920
Name: Harvey Curner
Gender: Male
Document Year: 1914
Residence Place: Station Road, Bere Alston
Regimental Number: 1412
Regiment Name: 3rd Battalion R F A 4th Wessex Brigade
Form Title: Territorial Force Attestation
Number of Images: 5
Family Members:
Name Relation to Soldier
Harvey Curner Self (Head)
Curner Mother

Thanks to you and everyone who has supplied me with confirmation of what I have already discovered. From that it would appear that Ethel never divorced either Cresswell or Curner and therefore, Curner was still married to her when he married Gowing. Know very little about divorces and the law in the 1920s, but were they all bigamists!?