Genealogy Chat

as far as i can see she was living alone

In one of my previous posts some kind contributors highlighted the fact that Ellen may have been separated from her husband John Angus Burnside citing London Electoral records. Could anyone who has access to such records please tell me who else is listed with her at any addresses they are able to find. Many thanks.

I don't know - but would imagine that there should be an actual birth cert as well.

Depends if you think it's worth £30 to find out one way or the other!

Can't remember where I got Belly from but I'm sure there must be something in it because you wouldn't make it up would you. Thinking about his marriage in Jersey do you think there would be any point in looking for a civil record. Would an army marriage record be sufficient?

Yes, that's from the link I posted in the previous post. [ EDIT: that sentence in reply to a post Ian has now deleted.]

But where did you find that "Belly" was John's birthplace?

The website is free to use.


But no, I don't see any sign of him there.

Where did you find the info re his birthplace?

Google hasn't heard a place called Belly.
But maybe it's Bellee?

http://www.placenamesni.org/resultdetails.php?entry=16529

Have a look

Is John Burnside's birth on irishgenealogy? He was born in 1838 in Belly Bushmills Antrim. before enlisting in 1857 aged 19. He was transferred to 11 Battalion in 1858.

Ian-
re "Lucy Flannery disappears" -

bear in mind that she was probably only visiting the Burnsides, and just happened to be with them on the night of the 1871 census.

In other census years she would likely be at home in Ireland, and therefore won't show up on censuses.

However, I don't see her birth or marriage , as either Flannery or Ryan, on Ancestry, FS, or irishgenealogy.ie.
Can't see Margaret's birth/baptism either.

You say ‘ Lucy Flannery disappears’

Did you give any consideration to the possible death I posted?

I couldn't find Theresa in the 1911 census only Irene who was being looked after by a Sarah Cox. I wonder if she had been abandoned by the family after Herbert;s death but they were prepared to pay for the upkeep of the child.

Theresa in the workhouse in 1911 - so her husband couldn't have been one of the moneyed Chasteauneufs you mentioned:

Theresa Anne Chasteauneuf
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Theresa Anne Chasteauneuf
Age in 1911: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1879
Relation to Head: Servant
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Woolwich, Kent
Civil Parish: Minster
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Street address: Isle Of Thanet Union Workhouse, Minster Near Ramsgate
Marital status: Widowed
Occupation: Laundress
Registration district: Thanet
Registration District Number: 63
Sub-registration district: Minster
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Piece: 4482

Yes Margaret Kettleband was the sister of Elizabeth and Theresa. It is interesting though to hear you say that the Kettlebands and John Angus Burnside and Family both lived at the same address.in 1901 (52 Jackson Street) This is another link for me to establish that John (Angus) Burnside is the same as John Burnside born Woolwich 1870 9no middle game given) because he would have been living here at the same address as his sister and mother.

As Elizabeth Burnside was working at Brook Hospital in 1901, I think this is probably Theresa Ann, also at Brook Hospital.
She's listed just above Elizabeth on the document:


Amelia Theresa Burnside
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Amelia Theresa Burnside
Age: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1879
Relation to Head: Froner [ Ironer ]
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Woolwich, Kent, England
Civil Parish: Kidbrooke
Ecclesiastical parish: St James Kidbrooke
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Woolwich
Sub-registration district: Charlton
ED, institution, or vessel: Brook Hospital
Neighbors:
Piece: 563
Folio: 150
Page Number: 10
Household schedule number: 1

Deaths Mar 1906 (>99%)
Burnside Margaret 66 Woolwich 1d 748

also births of two daughters:

KETTLEBAND, FLORENCE MARY WINIFRED BURNSIDE
GRO Reference: 1894 M Quarter in WOOLWICH Volume 01D Page 1269

KETTLEBAND, WINIFRED FLORENCE MARY BURNSIDE
GRO Reference: 1892 S Quarter in WOOLWICH Volume 01D Page 1230


Winifred died in infancy:

KETTLEBAND, WINIFRED MARY FLORENCE 0
GRO Reference: 1892 S Quarter in WOOLWICH Volume 01D Page 652

Elizabeth's mother Margaret:

Margaret Burnside
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Margaret Burnside
Age: 60
Estimated birth year: abt 1841
Relation to Head: Wife Mother (Mother-in-law)
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Ireland
Civil Parish: Woolwich
Ecclesiastical parish: St John the Evangelist
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 52 Jackson Street
Registration district: Woolwich
Sub-registration district: Woolwich
ED, institution, or vessel: 03
Neighbors:
Piece: 564
Folio: 49
Page Number: 11
Household schedule number: 78
Household Members:
Name Age
Margaret Kettleband 31
Florence Kettleband 7
Herbert Kettleband 4
Margaret Burnside 60 - retired laundress

At the same address, but a different household, there's the family we've had already on your other thread (I think, without looking back at it):

John Burnside, 30, examiner of small arms ammunition
Ellen J, wife,29
Cecilia V, 4 months, daughter.



Marriages Mar 1892 (>99%)
BURNSIDE Margaret Woolwich 1d 1260
Kettleband Alfred Henry Woolwich 1d 1260


birth of young Herbert:

KETTLEBAND, HERBERT WILLIAM BERNARD mms BURNSIDE
GRO Reference: 1896 S Quarter in WOOLWICH Volume 01D Page 1253

Re those Chasteauneufs with Irene in 1939:

Births Jun 1935 (>99%)
Chasteauneuf Peter (mms Reynolds) Milton 2a 1784


Marriages Sep 1932 (>99%)
Chasteauneuf Herbert T E Reynolds Milton 2a 3181
Reynolds Margaret K Chasteauneuf Milton 2a 3181

Yes, that's what I meant - I think Elizabeth was Winifred's mother.

And re Theresa's second marriage in 1912 - it's posted above, at 21:04 .

Irene's marriage:

Marriages Sep 1934 (>99%)
Chasteauneuf Irene M Rae Milton 2a 3657
Rae James W Chastessaf Milton 2a 3657



Irene M Rae
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Irene M Rae
Gender: Female
Marital status: Married
Birth Date: 21 Mar 1907
Residence Year: 1939
Residence Place: Swale, Kent, England
Occupation: Unpaid Domestic Duties
Schedule Number: 13
Sub Schedule Number: 5
Enumeration District: DJVN
Registration district: 61-1
Household Members:
Name
This record is officially closed.
Irene M Rae

Also in that household, though not transcribed all together on Ancestry:

Margaret Chasteauneuf, 29 Jan 1910,married.
Peter Chasteauneuf, 5 April 1935.

In order on the list, they are:
A closed record; Margaret; Peter; a closed record; Iirene; a closed record