Genealogy Chat

a bit of luck :-)

Well found, Maddie!

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Marathon Terrace, Crescent Roadway, Conchan, Isle of Man

First name(s) Ame A
Last name Anderton
Relationship Head
Marital status Widow
Sex Female
Age 37
Birth year 1854
Birth town -
Birth town as transcribed BARBADOES
Birth county -
Birth place -
Occupation Living On Own Means
House name Marathon Terrace
Street Crescent Roadway
Town Douglas
Parish Conchan
City -
County Isle of Man
Country Isle of Man
Registration district Isle of Man
Archive reference RG12
Piece number 4689
Folio 130
Page 19

cannot see a death record

the nephew
Name: John Henry Rocca Saville
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 18 Apr 1891
Baptism Date: 15 Oct 1891
Baptism Place: Stand, Lancashire, England
Father:
John George Saville
Mother:
Ethel
FHL Film Number: 1751505
Reference ID: item 4 p 68

Name: John Henry Rocca Saville
Death Date: 21 Jan 1945
Death Place: Queensland
Father's Name: John George
Mother's Name: Ethel Hull
Registration Year: 1945
Registration Place: Queensland
Registration Number: B000335
Page Number: 1999

John Henry Rocca Saville
Marriage Date: 21 Oct 1911
Marriage Place: Braddan, Isle of Man
Spouse:
Margaret Alice Sutherland
Biography: Married: Margaret Alice Sutherland. Groom's marital status: bachelor. Groom's father: John George Saville. Groom's mother: not stated. Bride's marital status: spinster. Bride's father: Alfred David Sutherland. Bride's mother: not stated. (MS10874-1-2)

Name: John Henry Rocca Saville
Gender: Male
Age: 24
Birth Year: abt 1890
Birth Place: Manchester, England
Dossier Year Range: 1914-1920
Enlistment Place: Brisbane, Queensland
Service Number: 6430
Spouse: Margaret Alice Saville

daughter

Valarie Frances Saville
1913–1992
Birth 14 MAY 1913
Death 30 SEP 1992 • Brisbane, Queensland, Australia

marriage
1937 • Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Albert Francis Hall

(1908–1977)

Record Transcription:
1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census

4, Marathon Terrace, Douglas, Onchan, Isle of Man
elationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Anne A K Anderton Head Widow Female 43 1858 Living On Own Means West Indies
John G Saville Brother Widower Male 45 1856 Physician & Surgeon England
John H R Saville Nephew - Male 9 1892 - England
Clara A Kneale Servant Single Female 18 1883 Servant Domestic Douglas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man

Name: John George Saville
Age: 62 Years
Birth Year: abt 1848
Burial Date: 24 May 1910
Burial Place: Onchan, Isle of Man
Biography: 62 years

She's not with her husband in 1891, although he's listed as married:

James T Anderton
in the 1891 England Census
Name: James T Anderton
Gender: Male
Age: 61
Relationship: Head
Birth Year: 1830
Child: Maud F Anderton
Birth Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: North Meols
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
Residence Place: Southport, North Meols, Lancashire, England
Registration District: Ormskirk
Sub registration district: North Meols
ED, Institution or Vessel: 16
Neighbors:
Piece: 3036
Folio: 50
Household Members:
Name Age
James T Anderton 61 - retired surgeon [ James P on image ]
Maud F Anderton 22
Jane W Srenalion 24
James W Srenalion 2
Helen Rimmer 22
Elizabeth Mercer 24

James P was a widower in 1881, as his first wife Sarah Frances died in 1880

James died in 1896 in Denbighshire.
Probate to his daughter Jane Wilkinson Trevalion, wife of Frank Wilkinson Trevalion.

Dr Saville's other sister Annie A K Saville was born in Barbados, per 1871 census on page 1.


Anne Amelia Knox Saville
in the Barbados, Church Records, 1637-1849
Name: Anne Amelia Knox
[Anne Amelia Knox Saville]
Gender: Female
Event Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 28 Nov 1845
Baptism Place: St Michael, Barbados
Father: Henry Saville
Mother: Anne Saville
FHL Film Number: 004934434


With her widowed mother in 1911:
Amelia Saville
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Amelia Saville
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1849
Relationship to Head: Daughter
Mother: Anne Saville
Gender: Female
Where born: Barbados
Civil Parish: Crumpsall
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: Cleveland Road Thorn Bank
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Registration District: Prestwich
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Neighbors:
Piece: 4026
Folio: 82
Page Number: 18
Household Members:
Name Age
Anne Saville 58
Amelia Saville 32
Fredk. Hall 29


Her marriage:

Anne Amelia K Saville
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name: Anne Amelia K Saville
Registration Year: 1881
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration District: Prestwich
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8d
Page: 463
Records on Page:
Name
James Parkinson Anderton
Anne Amelia K Saville


I don't see her after that.

No children, as far as I can see.

Henrietta's daughter Annie died unmarried:

Annie Saville Ashley
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Annie Saville Ashley
Death Age: 89
Birth Date: 31 Aug 1895
Registration Date: Jan 1985
Registration District: Colwyn
Inferred County: Clwyd
Volume: 24
Page: 154

Henrietta's son William Saville Ashley was a temporary Probationary Flight Officer in 1917:

William Saville Ashley
in the UK, Navy Lists, 1888-1970
Name: William Saville Ashley
Year: 1917
Book Title: Navy List: August, 19178


William Saville Ashley
in the Great Britain, Royal Aero Club Aviators’ Certificates, 1910-1950
Name: William Saville Ashley
Birth Date: 4 Mar 1899
Birth Location: Manchester


I don't see him in 1939.


William Saville Ashley
in the England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1995
Name: William Saville Ashley
Death Date: 27 Feb 1951
Death Place: Cheshire, England
Probate Date: 27 Aug 1951
Probate Registry: Manchester, Chester, England
Probate to District Bank Ltd and John Mason , incorporated accountant.


I don't see any definite sign of a marriage.

NOT this one - this man was born in 1909, per 1939 register - .

Marriages Sep 1935 (>99%)
Ashley William S Norris Manchester N. 8d 1397
Norris Annie Ashley Manchester N. 8d 1397

Dr Saville's sister Henrietta is on 1871 census on page 1.

1881:

Henrietta H.O. Saville
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Henrietta H.O. Saville
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relationship to Head: Sister
Gender: Female
Where born: Gillingham, Kent, England
Civil Parish: Radcliffe
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 50 Water Lane St
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Registration District: Bury
Sub registration district: Radcliffe
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors:
Piece: 3870
Folio: 32
Page Number: 2
Household Members:
Name Age
John G. Saville 33
Mary J. Laing 31
Bessie H. Saville 23
Henrietta H.O. Saville 21
Elizabeth Wilcox 24
Israel Greenhalgh 23


Henrietta Helen O Saville
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name: Henrietta Helen O Saville
Registration Year: 1892
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration District: Prestwich
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8d
Page: 461
Records on Page:
Name
Charles Ashley
Henrietta Helen O Saville


They had three children.


Henrietta H O Ashley
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Henrietta H O Ashley
Age: 41
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Spouse: Charles Ashley
Birth Place: Chatham, Kent, England
Civil Parish: North Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address:
Registration District: Prestwich
Sub-registration District: Cheetham
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors:
Piece: 3769
Folio: 31
Page Number: 45
Household Schedule Number: 291
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Ashley 41
Henrietta H O Ashley 41
Charles S Ashley 6
Annie S Ashley 5
William S Ashley 2
Frances Locke 15


Hanrietta Helen Alian Ashley
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Hanrietta Helen Alian Ashley
Age in 1911: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Chatham, Hart
Civil Parish: Heaton Norris
Country: England
Street Address: 2 Shawfield Rd, Heaton Many
Marital status: Married
Registration District Number: 443
Sub-registration District: Heaton Norris
ED, institution, or vessel: 06
Piece: 21424
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Ashley 50
Hanrietta Helen Alian Ashley 50
Charles Saville Ashley 16
Annies Saville Ashley [ scored out on image ]
William Ashley 12
Ethel Mary Mitchell 18


Sadly, their son Charles died in 1917:

Charles Saville Ashley
in the UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919
Name: Charles Saville Ashley
Birth Place: Salford, Lancs
Residence: Heaton Mersey, Lancs
Death Date: 6 Sep 1917
Death Place: France and Flanders
Enlistment Place: Manchester
Rank: Private
Regiment: Manchester Regiment
Battalion: 1st 6th Battalion
Regimental Number: 250328
Type of Casualty: Killed in action
Theatre of War: Western European Theatre

Unmarried.
Probate to his father:

Charles Saville Ashley
in the England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1995
Name: Charles Saville Ashley
Death Date: 6 Sep 1917
Death Place: Manchester, England
Probate Date: 9 Jan 1918
Probate Registry: Manchester, England


And his effects to go to his father:

Charles Seville Ashley
in the UK, Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects, 1901-1929
Name: Charles Seville Ashley
Gender: Male
Death Date: 6 Sep 1917
Death Place: Belgium
Rank: Private
Regiment: Manchester Regiment
Regimental Number: 250328

Just posting because it came up:

John Alexander Calder
in the UK and Ireland, Find a Grave Index, 1300s-Current
Name: John Alexander Calder
Birth Date: 20 Oct 1889
Birth Place: Broughty Ferry, Dundee City, Scotland
Death Date: 28 Sep 1974
Cemetery: Grange Cemetery
Burial or Cremation Place: Edinburgh, City of Edinburgh, Scotland
Has Bio?: Y
Father: Robert Calder
Mother: May Drummond Calder


John A Calder
in the 1901 Scotland Census
Name: John A Calder
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1890
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: Robert Calder
Mother's Name: May D Calder
Gender: Male
Where born: broty ferry, Forfarshire [ Broughty Ferry ]
Registration Number: 310
Registration district: Monifieth
Civil parish: Monifieth
County: Angus
Address: 6 Fintry Pl
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 8
Household schedule number: 86
Line: 22
Roll: CSSCT1901_111
Household Members Age Relationship
Robert Calder 62 Head
May D Calder 47 Wife
John A Calder 11 Son
Jean M Calder 10 Daur (Daughter)
Robert Calder 9 Son
William G Calder 6 Son
Martha M Auldie 36 Serv (Servant)
Helen C Gibb 18 Serv (Servant)


Photos of him here:

https://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/person/mp80178/sir-john-alexander-calder


.CHANCERY OF THE ORDER OF SAINT MICHAEL AND SAINT GEORGE.ist January, 1947.
The KING has been graciously pleased to give directions for the following promotions in, and appointments . . . . . . .To be Members of the Second Class, or KnightsCommanders, of the said Most Dis-tinguished Order:—
John Alexander CALDER, Esq., C.M.G., SeniorCrown Agent for the Colonies.

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/37835/supplement/5/data.pdf

And there's lots of other stuff about him.


However, as regards the silverplate tray - perhaps we need to look next for descendants of Dr Saville's siblings.

There is a tree on Ancestry (Hall - kylie 639) which shows a line of descendants of the brother John.

As you will have seen from the info posted, it doesn't appear that he had any legitimate children, so no direct descendants.


Already posted, but perhaps not noticed..................
Marriages Dec 1966 (>99%)
CALDER JOHN A SAVILLE BRIDGE 5F 199
SAVILLE MARY E CALDER BRIDGE 5F 199

The registration district 'Bridge' is in KENT

Deaths Dec 1978 (>99%)
CALDER MARY ELLEN (LADY) 27FE1898 SOUTHEND/S 9 2690

Deaths Sep 1974 (>99%)
CALDER JOHN ALEXANDER 20OC1889 SURREY S W 17 1256

Let me start again.

For many years I have had a silverplate tray inscribed:
Presented to _ Dr H W SAVILLE _ by his fellow practitioners at Radcliffe _ ON HIS RETIREMENT _ after many years of much appreciated work _ IN THEIR INTERESTS _ September 1929.

I had assumed that the Radcliffe mentioned was in Notts., because I was told that his family was associated with Rufford Abbey, which is indeed in that county.

I have no direct connecion with the Savilles/Saviles The tray was originally given to me by one Lady Mary Calder, as I remember it, who was a friend of my old-maid aunt. It is possible that Lady Mary was actually the widow of doctor Saville, who later re-married well.

Since I am approaching 90 it seemed to me appropriate to find a direct descendant of the doctor who would appreciate the tray as a family heirloom. I have no idea how to make a decision should there be 50 applicants - which is why I approached the question in so vague a way. Perhaps I should never have started!


Geoff JB.

With that in mind - this looks like Mary Ellen:


Mary Ellen Taylor
in the Manchester, England, Non-Conformist Births and Baptisms, 1758-1912
Name: Mary Ellen Taylor
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 27 Feb 1898 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Birth Place: Manchester, England
Baptism Date: 10 Apr 1898
Baptism Place: Radcliffe, Manchester, England
Church: Presbyterian Congregational Church
Father Name: Geoffrey
Mother Name: Ellen Ann



Mary Ellen Tayler
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Mary Ellen Tayler
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1898
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Father: Geoffrey Tayler
Mother: Ellen Ann Tayler
Birth Place: Radcliffe, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Radcliffe
Ecclesiastical parish: St Batholomew
Town: Radcliffe
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration District: Bury
Sub-registration District: Radcliffe
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors:
Piece: 3649
Folio: 113
Page Number: 1
Household Schedule Number: 9
Household Members:
Name Age
Geoffrey Tayler 26
Ellen Ann Tayler 25
Mary Ellen Tayler 3
Harry Tayler 1


Mary Ellon Taylor
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Mary Ellon Taylor
Age in 1911: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1898
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Radcliffe, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Radcliffe
Country: England
Street Address: 285 Lever St Radcliffe Lanc
Occupation: Cotton Weaver
Registration District Number: 462
Sub-registration District: Radcliffe
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Piece: 23538
Household Members:
Name Age
Geoffrey Taylor 36
Ellen Ann Taylor 35
Mary Ellon Taylor 13
Harry Taylor 11


Mary Ellen's birth:

TAYLOR, MARY ELLEN mmn WRIGHT
GRO Reference: 1898 J Quarter in BURY LANCASHIRE Volume 08C Page 615



Geoffrey Taylor
in the Manchester, England, Non-Conformist Marriages, 1758-1937
Name: Geoffrey Taylor
Gender: Male
Birth Year: abt 1875
Marriage Age: 22
Marriage Date: 16 Oct 1897
Marriage Place: Radcliffe, Manchester, England
Church: Presbyterian Congregational Church
Father Name: John Taylor
Spouse Name: Ellen Ann Wright
Spouse Marriage Age: 22
Spouse Father Name: Henry Wright

Geoff -

how sure are you about it being Radcliffe, Notts?

The man we've been following was in Radcliffe, Lancs.

.
?
Mary Ellen Glady Calder
Death Age: 80
Birth Date: 27 Feb 1898
Registration Date: Oct 1978
[Nov 1978]
[Dec 1978]
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration District: Southend on Sea
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 9
Page: 2690

Wife possibly

46 Hill Rise, Chorleywood, Chorleywood U.D., Hertfordshire, England

Mary E Calder (Saville) 27 Feb 1898 Female Independent Means Widowed 269 1
Ref: RG101/1603B/003/3 Letter Code: DEEA

No closed records



Marriages Dec 1966
CALDER JOHN A SAVILLE BRIDGE 5F 199
SAVILLE MARY E CALDER BRIDGE 5F 199

Dr Henry William Brooks Saville
in the UK and Ireland, Find a Grave Index, 1300s-Current
Name: Dr Henry William Brooks Saville
Death Date: 13 May 1937
Cemetery: Chorleywood Road Cemetery
Burial or Cremation Place: Rickmansworth, Three Rivers District, Hertfordshire, England

No obvious births of children - but if Mary was about Henry's age, there wouldn't be..

A few Saville / Taylor births -

one in Manchester in 1927, re-registered for some reason in Manchester in 1961.

Two in Stockport, 1928 and 1938.
Two in Sheffield, 1938 and 1939


(And anyway, Henry died in 1937.)