Genealogy Chat

It only took 7 days for my certs to come from the day I ordered them not bad to Australia well done. But now have another birth date for my great grand father its on his death cert 1862, on joining the navy its 1860, on his wedding cert its 1856, on census its 1857, so James Williams of GRAVESEND when where you born. Annabel

Annabel, The only way you will no is by finding his birth record I suppose. Whoever registered his death didn't necessarily know his actual age. Nicky

Birth certificates and marriage certificates can be relied upon more than death certificates. Even the census can be more accurate at times. Sometimes on Naval records they will lie just to enter earlier. Or if they were underage. Steve

James Williams is a fairly common name. How certain are you that all the references apply to the same chap? nell

Hi Helen re James Williams James Williams 1881census birth1860 Gravesend ( in the navy) have a copy of his naval service date of birth sept 25th 1860 Gravesend Kent James Williams in 1883 marriage in Falmouth age 26 (1857) to a Annie Paull still in the navy (these are my fathers grandparents) James Williams 1901 census birth st pauls Gravesend age 45 (1856) wife Annie daughter Maud ( my grandmother) I have a copy of his death cert nov 1909 age 47 (1862 ) informant a Isabella Williams of Bristol, I found her on the 1901 census her place of birth Gravesend Kent single seems it could be his sister her year of birth 1865, I know Williams is a hard name to pin down. cheers Annabel

This is going to be tricky as he is so vague about when he was born and he has a fairly common name. What does it say for his father's name and occupation on the marriage certificate, and who were the witnesses? Kate.

On the marriage cert James williams is private in the royal marines on the hms ganges ,he gave his fathers name as John his profession as a miller, wittnesses were Kezia Paull and R Pappies, I have searched census, bmd, and get no where. Annabel

How determined do you feel about this? If you find the right place (main library in that area, or county records office or equivalent, you could trawl through the films of the baptism registers for Gravesend, noting down all the info about the possibles. You'd have to look at quite a few - but you might (in the process) spot siblings, too, or even be able to suss out why the particular witnesses were chosen. Christine

Silly me! It would have to be done by a delegate, unless you're planning to come over in the near future! Or you might be able to get a librarian to do something specific, but with such vague info, it's more of a problem. You'd have to pay them a fee, too. Christine

Have you contacted this group (found by googling): http://www.genfair.*com/shop/pages/nwk/page06.html (remove *) Note that, at some point, it looks as if Medway CityArk site is planning to have parish register images for Gravesend available online. Christine

Many thanks Christine have added to my favorites, its bed time here will have a look tomorrow night Annabel

Sorry if you've already said, but when you say you have searched BMD, do you mean 1837 online (or its equivalent), or just FreeBMD, which isn't complete yet? Kate.

I've looked on 1837online in the Sept. and Dec. qtrs for all years from 1856 to 1862 and this is the only James Williams registered in Gravesend and considering his middle name is John, is a good possibility:- James John Williams Dec. qtr. 1859, 2a, 280 Kath. x

Thank you all for your replys, I will send for that cert, fingers crossed will let you all know the outcome, happy christmas to all you great folks on this board. Annabel

Hi may have found my James Williams 1859 with mother Ann 1827 sisters Mary Ann 1863 and Isabella 1866 in the work house. have a birth certificate for a Isabella Williams born 1866 Dartford work house mother Ann Williams formerly Campbell father William Williams, can not find a marriage for them or any census, any idea where I go from here

thanks Ann

Name: James Williams
Admission Age: 8
Birth Date: 1859
Admission Date: 12 Jul 1867
Admission Place: Medway, Kent, England
From Whence Admitted: Chatham
Record Type: Admission
Parish or Poor Law Union: Medway Union
Register: Admission and Discharge (1867-1868)

What is William Williams occupation on that birth certificate?

Thank you for your reply.

Fathers occupation on Isabella birth certificate is given as a Collier, she was born in the union work house Dartford Kent. 1866



Ann

I'm just posting these so I can see the information clearer-

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
1, Upper Terrace, Bristol, Gloucestershire, England

Isabella Williams Head Single Female 36 1865 Florist Gravesend, Kent, England
Alice Pound Boarder Single Female 35 1866 Florist Bristol, Gloucestershire, England
---------------------------------------------

1911- with James' children:

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
29 Upper Clifton Place Bristol, Bristol, Gloucestershire, England

Isabella Williams Head Single Female Florist Dealer 46 1865 Dartford Kent
Fredrick Williams Nephew - Male Potter Carthenware 15 1896 Gloster Gloucestershire
Laura B Williams Niece - Female School 9 1902 Gloster Gloucestershire
Alice Bennett Boarder Single Female Florist Dealer 44 1867 Bristol Gloucestershire
Margaret Nixon Boarder Single Female Potters Painter 25 1886 Bristol Gloucester
-------------------------------------------

Births for Isabella and sister:

WILLIAMS, ISABELLA mmn: CAMPBELL
GRO Reference: 1866 S Quarter in DARTFORD Volume 02A Page 325

WILLIAMS, MARY ANN mmn: CAMPBELL
GRO Reference: 1863 S Quarter in WEST ASHFORD Volume 02A Page 537
----------------------------

Baptism:
First name(s) Mary Ann
Last name Williams
Birth year 1863
Birth date 11 Jul 1863
Baptism year 1863
Baptism date 26 Jul 1863
Relationship Daughter Of
Father's first name(s) William
Father's last name -
Mother's first name(s) Ann
Mother's last name 26
Residence Res. Unknown, Mother In The Union
Place Westwell
County Kent

Some of the information re James is a little confusing.

You give this naval record as his:

Description:
Name Williams, James
Official Number: 95248
Place of Birth: Gravesend, Kent
Date of Birth: 25 September 1860
Date: [1876]

but the record only runs until 1881 where it states:
Run- Melbourne. Debt 3s/3d to be reported to branch (24) should he be recaptured.
---------------------------------------

You then state when he was married in 1883 he was Royal Marine:

Which looks like this man:

Reference: ADM 157/1859/18
Description:

Folios 44-46: James Williams, born: Gravesend, Kent; Age at attestation: 18; Attested: Bristol; Joined in: 1875; Discharge reason: Invalided; Discharge year: 1884.
Date: 1884
---------------------------------------------

James in 1891:

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
St Marys Square, Gloucester, Gloucestershire, England

James Williams Head Married Male 33 1858 General Labourer Bristol
Annie Williams Wife Married Female 32 1859 - Cornwall, England
Walter A Williams Son - Male 7 1884 Scholar Gloucester
James J Williams Son - Male 3 1888 Gloucester
Maude Williams Daughter - Female 1 1890 Gloucester